3 ms·

The idea that using a symbol across cultures is a misappropriation is an extension of the ideology that cultures should not mix. It's the thinking that everyone

by onli 2y ago

The idea that using a symbol across cultures is a misappropriation is an extension of the ideology that cultures should not mix. It's the thinking that everyone would be better of if each person stayed in their culture barrier - and you know which kind of thinking that is, from which political side on the spectrum. It's sad that an organisation like this feels the need to give legitimacy to that anti-multicultural ideology.

acc4everypici 2y ago
I am bothered by the implicit assumptions around property and ownership over cultural symbols which are tacit in your thinking. as explicitly as I can, the very notion of saying "this is my culture, why are you adopting cultural practices or beliefs or symbols (or anything) from a culture that isn't yours!?" is why I'm raising a red flag here. I have a problem with that attitude. this is not an easy topic.
- jackbravo 2y ago
  It is not easy. Personally, I'm on the other side of the fence. As Mexican, we often see our culture "misrepresented" in media. But generally, all my friends and family hate it when they "correct it". For example, we loved Speedy Gonzalez, Yepa yepa! Arriba Arriba! When he was canceled, I guess some people were bothered, but I'm sure there was no consensus around Mexicans whether we wanted it gone. I bet if you did a survey, most Mexicans loved the character. And the same happens with sombreros, nopales and huaraches. I love seeing people using them, people recognizing them, and even selling them (wish all times they were Mexican made, but hey, you can't have it all). It sometimes bothers us, especially when the stereotype affects us personally while looking for jobs, opportunities, etc. But I like having a strong culture that other people imitate, and would rather find ways to educate people in the wrong when the occasion arises and when it is not in our favor than just cancelling it for good.
  - jackbravo 2y ago
    I was curious and searched, and what do you know, I found an article about Mexicans defending Speedy Gonzalez: https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2021-03-17/speedy-gonzales-cancelled-hollywood-mexican-americans https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2021-03-17/speedy-g...
  - foobarian 2y ago
    Funny that you mention that, because I grew up watching both Speedy Gonzales and the Tijuana Toads. The latter one especially was pretty non-PC given the combo Japanese and Mexican stereotypes.
svieira 2y ago
I _suspect_ the impetus here is slightly different. Reading the linked blog the driving feature of this request seems to be more one of "re-asserting ownership and power" than one of "purifying and isolating cultures and bloodlines". And there are definitely reasons for people to want to assert their value and ownership. That said, I think the end result will be a more _literal_ erasure of these cultures as reminders that anything was here before the Denny's was erected are removed from common culture and parlance. But maybe a "smaller, purer" awareness is what the instigators want?
- brodouevencode 2y ago
  > driving feature of this request seems to be more one of "re-asserting ownership and power" If that were the case it seems like the name change would assert that more than just a logo change. But that's not what happened.
  - svieira 2y ago
    In this case it's the "goals of the people asking for the change" not the "goals of the people delivering the change".
- onli 2y ago
  Re-asserting ownership and power is, maybe somewhat not completely obvious, exactly how the far right historically branded their calls for cultural isolation.
  - brodouevencode 2y ago
    The problem with such isolationist tendencies is that at some point it becomes everyone shouting "dibs!".
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
stefan_ 2y ago
On the other hand, this is exactly the kind of thing I imagine people at the Apache Software Foundation to spend their day doing. True rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic stuff here.

by onli 2y ago

acc4everypici 2y ago

I am bothered by the implicit assumptions around property and ownership over cultural symbols which are tacit in your thinking. as explicitly as I can, the very notion of saying "this is my culture, why are you adopting cultural practices or beliefs or symbols (or anything) from a culture that isn't yours!?" is why I'm raising a red flag here. I have a problem with that attitude. this is not an easy topic.

jackbravo 2y ago
It is not easy. Personally, I'm on the other side of the fence. As Mexican, we often see our culture "misrepresented" in media. But generally, all my friends and family hate it when they "correct it". For example, we loved Speedy Gonzalez, Yepa yepa! Arriba Arriba! When he was canceled, I guess some people were bothered, but I'm sure there was no consensus around Mexicans whether we wanted it gone. I bet if you did a survey, most Mexicans loved the character. And the same happens with sombreros, nopales and huaraches. I love seeing people using them, people recognizing them, and even selling them (wish all times they were Mexican made, but hey, you can't have it all). It sometimes bothers us, especially when the stereotype affects us personally while looking for jobs, opportunities, etc. But I like having a strong culture that other people imitate, and would rather find ways to educate people in the wrong when the occasion arises and when it is not in our favor than just cancelling it for good.
- jackbravo 2y ago
  I was curious and searched, and what do you know, I found an article about Mexicans defending Speedy Gonzalez: https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2021-03-17/speedy-gonzales-cancelled-hollywood-mexican-americans https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2021-03-17/speedy-g...
- foobarian 2y ago
  Funny that you mention that, because I grew up watching both Speedy Gonzales and the Tijuana Toads. The latter one especially was pretty non-PC given the combo Japanese and Mexican stereotypes.

svieira 2y ago

I _suspect_ the impetus here is slightly different. Reading the linked blog the driving feature of this request seems to be more one of "re-asserting ownership and power" than one of "purifying and isolating cultures and bloodlines". And there are definitely reasons for people to want to assert their value and ownership. That said, I think the end result will be a more _literal_ erasure of these cultures as reminders that anything was here before the Denny's was erected are removed from common culture and parlance. But maybe a "smaller, purer" awareness is what the instigators want?

brodouevencode 2y ago
> driving feature of this request seems to be more one of "re-asserting ownership and power" If that were the case it seems like the name change would assert that more than just a logo change. But that's not what happened.
- svieira 2y ago
  In this case it's the "goals of the people asking for the change" not the "goals of the people delivering the change".
onli 2y ago
Re-asserting ownership and power is, maybe somewhat not completely obvious, exactly how the far right historically branded their calls for cultural isolation.
- brodouevencode 2y ago
  The problem with such isolationist tendencies is that at some point it becomes everyone shouting "dibs!".

deleted 2y ago

[deleted]

stefan_ 2y ago

On the other hand, this is exactly the kind of thing I imagine people at the Apache Software Foundation to spend their day doing. True rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic stuff here.