4 ms·

No, I'm not saying that at all.

AlexandrB 2y ago
Then what are you saying? If I as an individual don't want to "work with the national security community", that's my right. If they want to compel me to do so, they have to go through the judicial system and get a warrant. At what organizational size should a corporation be "brought to heel" and the right to refuse to do something for the government (without sufficient legal reason) go away?
- ahmeneeroe-v2 2y ago
  Many (most? all?) nation-states have compulsory service, either triggered in a "draft" or always ongoing (e.g. all young people serve in some way after high school). So no, I don't believe that you as an individual have the right to not work with your nation's national security apparatus, regardless of where you reside. You may think this is only for young people but I think that's just been typical practice/need, not a matter of law. Similarly, corporations have obligations to the state. In the US I believe this largely falls under the "Defense Production Act". My personal assumption is that most companies are more pragmatic than individuals and would accept some suggestions/requests to aid the state rather than risk disruption from a formal order to support the state; and the state has a lot of levers to make themselves persuasive.
  - rendx 2y ago
    > Many (most? all?) nation-states have compulsory service "The following 113 countries and territories have been identified as having no enforced conscription" "The following fifteen countries have been identified as having a civilian, unarmed or non-combatant service optional alternative to compulsory military service" "The following 19 countries have been identified as having no defense forces or as having no standing army but having very limited military forces" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_service https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_service
    - gpderetta 2y ago
      ... no compulsory service until the bombs start dropping.
    - ahmeneeroe-v2 2y ago
      The United States is on the list as having no enforced conscription. I assure you that we do have it. The definition they used for this chart is highly suspect. Edit: also trying to quantify this using "Count of Nations" rather than "Sum of Populations" is wildly misguided. Saying that Vatican City doesn't have a defense force adds nothing to the conversation.
  - willcipriano 2y ago
    The government is way ahead of you. Not even the women will be spared in defence of democracy in the ME and Ukraine. https://thehill.com/policy/defense/4730560-senate-democrats-require-women-draft/ https://thehill.com/policy/defense/4730560-senate-democrats-...
    - worthless-trash 2y ago
      I guess we'll see if equality is something that we really will follow through to the end or we only do it when it is convenient.

Then what are you saying? If I as an individual don't want to "work with the national security community", that's my right. If they want to compel me to do so, they have to go through the judicial system and get a warrant. At what organizational size should a corporation be "brought to heel" and the right to refuse to do something for the government (without sufficient legal reason) go away?

ahmeneeroe-v2 2y ago
Many (most? all?) nation-states have compulsory service, either triggered in a "draft" or always ongoing (e.g. all young people serve in some way after high school). So no, I don't believe that you as an individual have the right to not work with your nation's national security apparatus, regardless of where you reside. You may think this is only for young people but I think that's just been typical practice/need, not a matter of law. Similarly, corporations have obligations to the state. In the US I believe this largely falls under the "Defense Production Act". My personal assumption is that most companies are more pragmatic than individuals and would accept some suggestions/requests to aid the state rather than risk disruption from a formal order to support the state; and the state has a lot of levers to make themselves persuasive.
- rendx 2y ago
  > Many (most? all?) nation-states have compulsory service "The following 113 countries and territories have been identified as having no enforced conscription" "The following fifteen countries have been identified as having a civilian, unarmed or non-combatant service optional alternative to compulsory military service" "The following 19 countries have been identified as having no defense forces or as having no standing army but having very limited military forces" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_service https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_service
  - gpderetta 2y ago
    ... no compulsory service until the bombs start dropping.
  - ahmeneeroe-v2 2y ago
    The United States is on the list as having no enforced conscription. I assure you that we do have it. The definition they used for this chart is highly suspect. Edit: also trying to quantify this using "Count of Nations" rather than "Sum of Populations" is wildly misguided. Saying that Vatican City doesn't have a defense force adds nothing to the conversation.
- willcipriano 2y ago
  The government is way ahead of you. Not even the women will be spared in defence of democracy in the ME and Ukraine. https://thehill.com/policy/defense/4730560-senate-democrats-require-women-draft/ https://thehill.com/policy/defense/4730560-senate-democrats-...
  - worthless-trash 2y ago
    I guess we'll see if equality is something that we really will follow through to the end or we only do it when it is convenient.