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Yup. Government regulations once again screwing those of us who prefer smaller vehicles. Looking at you, Chicken Tax!

by EricE 2y ago

Amezarak 2y ago
Government regulation didn't kill the Ford Focus or the Honda Fit. No sales did.
- rglullis 2y ago
  You can not compare sales of two different classes of vehicles if one of them has subsidies and/or allow for a bigger profit margins. This is basic microeconomics. If the Honda CR-V, the Ford Explorer and every other car of a similar or bigger size had to pay the same tax as smaller ones, they would sell less.
  - Amezarak 2y ago
    You could buy a Honda Fit for 17k, the bottom of Honda’s car lineup. Much cheaper than a CRV. If you look at the actual CAFE standards you’ll see this had nothing to do with this particular case anyway, but even if it did, if consumers really wanted small cars the volume of Fit sales would rapidly outpace CRVs and it’d make up for the lower margin. They didn’t though. Because Americans didn’t want them. The emissions regulations people talk about are easy to look up online and there was undoubtedly a real effect on the viability of larger vehicles but it is hugely overstated online. The main reason for huge cars is because they really are much more useful and comfortable for anything except gas mileage and city parking, Americans can afford them, and such models generally have more social clout. The Fit in particular is an amazing car. There’s actually much more room for the driver than in even much larger cars. With the seats down you can fit all kinds of crazy stuff in there - even 8ft lumber. It didn’t die because of government regulation. It died because Americans by and large think it’s a ridiculous car to drive around in, so it didn’t sell. And because despite all those things, a three row SUV or a truck has more general utility.
    - rglullis 2y ago
      > gas mileage and city parking Which are exactly the things heavily subsidized in the US!
      - Amezarak 2y ago
        Does unsubsidized energy exist in the US? Either way, that’s two dimensions out of dozens. I could argue that efficiency has come a long way (my large SUV gets 40mpg) but more than that people really will pay huge amounts in gas to drive these cars regardless. While I was paying a little over a hundred a month for my Fit in gas other people were paying just south of a thousand. They could have easily moved down and chose not to. I guess you could plan to turn up the pain as much as possible for as long as possible but I’m not sure how you can accomplish that in a democracy. City parking is not that big a deal, most people don’t do it most of the time. Obviously people value the dozens of other dimensions they assess cars on much more than these two.
        rglullis 2y ago
        Sorry, you can not at the same time argue "efficiency has gone a long way" and "other people were paying just south of a thousand". It's one or the other. I'm kind of tired of these discussions. It's completely absurd to associate quality of life, safety and general comfort with the size of the car. If they were not brainwashed by marketing, 99.995% of people that drive a SUV or pick-up truck would find more utility and value in having a Station Wagon, an actual van or a properly-sized commuter car. If you want a simple way to check this, just look at the fact that those that really need trucks are importing it from Japan [0] because the industry is not interested in serving them. The lengths that Americans will try to justify their completely illogical behavior is pathological. They would rather believe in American Exceptionalism than face the truth that they are being played for fools by the Auto industry. It's easier to keep eating up the BS that they "need" a bigger car than to learn the ways that the system is rigged so that you can fight it. [0]: https://www.economist.com/united-states/2023/04/20/rural-americans-are-importing-tiny-japanese-pickup-trucks https://www.economist.com/united-states/2023/04/20/rural-ame...
rqtwteye 2y ago
The regulations were designed by the car manufacturers.

Yup. Government regulations once again screwing those of us who prefer smaller vehicles. Looking at you, Chicken Tax!

by EricE 2y ago

Yup. Government regulations once again screwing those of us who prefer smaller vehicles. Looking at you, Chicken Tax!

Amezarak 2y ago

Government regulation didn't kill the Ford Focus or the Honda Fit. No sales did.

rglullis 2y ago
You can not compare sales of two different classes of vehicles if one of them has subsidies and/or allow for a bigger profit margins. This is basic microeconomics. If the Honda CR-V, the Ford Explorer and every other car of a similar or bigger size had to pay the same tax as smaller ones, they would sell less.
- Amezarak 2y ago
  You could buy a Honda Fit for 17k, the bottom of Honda’s car lineup. Much cheaper than a CRV. If you look at the actual CAFE standards you’ll see this had nothing to do with this particular case anyway, but even if it did, if consumers really wanted small cars the volume of Fit sales would rapidly outpace CRVs and it’d make up for the lower margin. They didn’t though. Because Americans didn’t want them. The emissions regulations people talk about are easy to look up online and there was undoubtedly a real effect on the viability of larger vehicles but it is hugely overstated online. The main reason for huge cars is because they really are much more useful and comfortable for anything except gas mileage and city parking, Americans can afford them, and such models generally have more social clout. The Fit in particular is an amazing car. There’s actually much more room for the driver than in even much larger cars. With the seats down you can fit all kinds of crazy stuff in there - even 8ft lumber. It didn’t die because of government regulation. It died because Americans by and large think it’s a ridiculous car to drive around in, so it didn’t sell. And because despite all those things, a three row SUV or a truck has more general utility.
  - rglullis 2y ago
    > gas mileage and city parking Which are exactly the things heavily subsidized in the US!
    - Amezarak 2y ago
      Does unsubsidized energy exist in the US? Either way, that’s two dimensions out of dozens. I could argue that efficiency has come a long way (my large SUV gets 40mpg) but more than that people really will pay huge amounts in gas to drive these cars regardless. While I was paying a little over a hundred a month for my Fit in gas other people were paying just south of a thousand. They could have easily moved down and chose not to. I guess you could plan to turn up the pain as much as possible for as long as possible but I’m not sure how you can accomplish that in a democracy. City parking is not that big a deal, most people don’t do it most of the time. Obviously people value the dozens of other dimensions they assess cars on much more than these two.
      - rglullis 2y ago
        Sorry, you can not at the same time argue "efficiency has gone a long way" and "other people were paying just south of a thousand". It's one or the other. I'm kind of tired of these discussions. It's completely absurd to associate quality of life, safety and general comfort with the size of the car. If they were not brainwashed by marketing, 99.995% of people that drive a SUV or pick-up truck would find more utility and value in having a Station Wagon, an actual van or a properly-sized commuter car. If you want a simple way to check this, just look at the fact that those that really need trucks are importing it from Japan [0] because the industry is not interested in serving them. The lengths that Americans will try to justify their completely illogical behavior is pathological. They would rather believe in American Exceptionalism than face the truth that they are being played for fools by the Auto industry. It's easier to keep eating up the BS that they "need" a bigger car than to learn the ways that the system is rigged so that you can fight it. [0]: https://www.economist.com/united-states/2023/04/20/rural-americans-are-importing-tiny-japanese-pickup-trucks https://www.economist.com/united-states/2023/04/20/rural-ame...

rqtwteye 2y ago

The regulations were designed by the car manufacturers.