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And who pays the candidates for the hours wasted in these interviews again? Comparing that to the hundreds of hours working together is what is preposterous. If

And who pays the candidates for the hours wasted in these interviews again? Comparing that to the hundreds of hours working together is what is preposterous. If interviews were paid for, then the entire conversation would shift dramatically. Let's remember that 4-5 hours is on the low end for most places IME. I've had places that had a single day with 5 hours of interviews. I had to take a day off from work to make a single interview. Can't we all agree that's absurd? This is extremely unfair on every candidate since they're doing this for multiple companies, all for free, only to then get rejected multiple times for absolutely stupid reasons. The entire system is broken.

lazide 2y ago
4-5 hrs is historically typical.
- Draiken 2y ago
  Having to interview at hundreds of places to find a job is not.
  - lazide 2y ago
    That part? Correct. But I take it you didn’t live through ‘01/dot-com-crash? It was the same, but smaller scale back then. I remember looking for a job and folks were requiring a CS PhD for literal ‘help run a school computer lab’ jobs. Home Depot wouldn’t even consider your resume if you had been in Tech either. One person I talked to (not HD) said that they considered techies ‘overly entitled brats’ and didn’t want to have anything to do with them. This was in the PNW. Previously it was super high pay, no formal education required - as long as you could code. This was before AI or automated applications or the like, so I was doing 15 something manual applications a week. I ended up moving something like 8 states away to take a middle of nowhere software dev job - after applying for over a year - at 1/4 the salary that I had been previously paid. It worked out. Frankly, employers are being pretty mellow considering the market conditions. So far anyway. The biggest issue right now IMO is general confusion and overwhelm + widespread fraud and lying (in both sides of the market) resulting in the market nearly locking up. Which is putting a lot of people in very awkward positions. But things aren’t desperate enough yet to cut through the BS. No one is sure what they really want to do, what is reasonable, or what will work to produce an outcome they want, and that is causing everything to be a giant tarpit. This is what people mean when they say ‘life isn’t fair’. Well, a very mellow version of it.
    - Draiken 2y ago
      Yeah those were times that probably compare the most to what we see today. I agree with you it's definitely not the worse version of this (yet) but regardless, I don't think what GP said should be acceptable as reasonable. Saying people should just accept that they have to humiliate themselves for hours on end, for free, to get the possibility of slaving away to earn a paycheck is disingenuous. I say humiliating because even with 15 years of experience I still have to prove to a bunch of random people that I can code to move forward in these processes, many times to hear a no without any reasoning or get a ridiculously low offer.
      - lazide 2y ago
        Should == 'I wish'. For folks with Capital, now is a much better time to go found a startup, for instance. For folks without, now is a great time to get into the trades. For folks with a retirement nest egg and plans, why not retire? Look at the market conditions, and make the best bet you can. That's the realist approach, anyway. It's hard not to feel the ego hit from changes like this, but it can easily lead to serious negative personal consequences if someone is not in a position to deal with the fallout. Not being an adult about situations like this can have very severe and lifelong negative consequences.
        johnnyanmac 2y ago
        > For folks without, now is a great time to get into the trades. I'll save my rant on this response so I'll keep it short: It's going to be a while, but I have experience in tech and I'm pretty sure by the time I do the 2-3 years of appreticeships for trades the market will at least be not shit. Not necessarily bounce back, but people will actually be hiring. Trades is a long term "tech is over" doomism retort. And if you really feel like that that's fine. But I think people right now would appreciate some short/mid term solutions more.
        lazide 2y ago
        Eh, during the dot-com crash days I knew two people personally that left tech and became farmers. One started a big kale farm off highway 1, and was still doing it last I checked. He was a lot happier. I learned how to skydive and rock climb while I waited to finally land something. Downturns, techies have often turned to random different things. Office Space had the dudes end up doing construction for a reason. If you can afford to wait 2-3 years, then do. I already laid out what I did to get by. Otherwise, work your network, or try to start your own thing, or any number of different things. Anything I tell you here is going to get noticed and will have a lot of competition. The harder (and often more likely to work) choices are ones you’ll need to find yourself. Personally, I’ve been this close to starting HVAC and pest control companies, but have something outside the country I’m pursuing instead. I’m not your mom.

lazide 2y ago

4-5 hrs is historically typical.

Draiken 2y ago
Having to interview at hundreds of places to find a job is not.
- lazide 2y ago
  That part? Correct. But I take it you didn’t live through ‘01/dot-com-crash? It was the same, but smaller scale back then. I remember looking for a job and folks were requiring a CS PhD for literal ‘help run a school computer lab’ jobs. Home Depot wouldn’t even consider your resume if you had been in Tech either. One person I talked to (not HD) said that they considered techies ‘overly entitled brats’ and didn’t want to have anything to do with them. This was in the PNW. Previously it was super high pay, no formal education required - as long as you could code. This was before AI or automated applications or the like, so I was doing 15 something manual applications a week. I ended up moving something like 8 states away to take a middle of nowhere software dev job - after applying for over a year - at 1/4 the salary that I had been previously paid. It worked out. Frankly, employers are being pretty mellow considering the market conditions. So far anyway. The biggest issue right now IMO is general confusion and overwhelm + widespread fraud and lying (in both sides of the market) resulting in the market nearly locking up. Which is putting a lot of people in very awkward positions. But things aren’t desperate enough yet to cut through the BS. No one is sure what they really want to do, what is reasonable, or what will work to produce an outcome they want, and that is causing everything to be a giant tarpit. This is what people mean when they say ‘life isn’t fair’. Well, a very mellow version of it.
  - Draiken 2y ago
    Yeah those were times that probably compare the most to what we see today. I agree with you it's definitely not the worse version of this (yet) but regardless, I don't think what GP said should be acceptable as reasonable. Saying people should just accept that they have to humiliate themselves for hours on end, for free, to get the possibility of slaving away to earn a paycheck is disingenuous. I say humiliating because even with 15 years of experience I still have to prove to a bunch of random people that I can code to move forward in these processes, many times to hear a no without any reasoning or get a ridiculously low offer.
    - lazide 2y ago
      Should == 'I wish'. For folks with Capital, now is a much better time to go found a startup, for instance. For folks without, now is a great time to get into the trades. For folks with a retirement nest egg and plans, why not retire? Look at the market conditions, and make the best bet you can. That's the realist approach, anyway. It's hard not to feel the ego hit from changes like this, but it can easily lead to serious negative personal consequences if someone is not in a position to deal with the fallout. Not being an adult about situations like this can have very severe and lifelong negative consequences.
      - johnnyanmac 2y ago
        > For folks without, now is a great time to get into the trades. I'll save my rant on this response so I'll keep it short: It's going to be a while, but I have experience in tech and I'm pretty sure by the time I do the 2-3 years of appreticeships for trades the market will at least be not shit. Not necessarily bounce back, but people will actually be hiring. Trades is a long term "tech is over" doomism retort. And if you really feel like that that's fine. But I think people right now would appreciate some short/mid term solutions more.
        lazide 2y ago
        Eh, during the dot-com crash days I knew two people personally that left tech and became farmers. One started a big kale farm off highway 1, and was still doing it last I checked. He was a lot happier. I learned how to skydive and rock climb while I waited to finally land something. Downturns, techies have often turned to random different things. Office Space had the dudes end up doing construction for a reason. If you can afford to wait 2-3 years, then do. I already laid out what I did to get by. Otherwise, work your network, or try to start your own thing, or any number of different things. Anything I tell you here is going to get noticed and will have a lot of competition. The harder (and often more likely to work) choices are ones you’ll need to find yourself. Personally, I’ve been this close to starting HVAC and pest control companies, but have something outside the country I’m pursuing instead. I’m not your mom.