3 ms·

Files are an abstraction that was very useful in the last several decades, but that just isn't as relevant in the current world. Those videos and documents you

Files are an abstraction that was very useful in the last several decades, but that just isn't as relevant in the current world. Those videos and documents you mentioned are likely managed via object storage in a distributed database, itself possibly using block storage directly, with no actual "file" in an old-school filesystem anywhere in sight. I still personally cling to files personally, but I have no real reason to believe that they are a fundamental abstraction that is more true than cloud lambdas.

isoprophlex 2y ago
Sure, call them byte streams or blobs, that's fine too. I'm not disagreeing, but the point I wanted to make was that recently, people seem to have gotten the idea that their objects are semi-magical things locked into some app or some cloud service. Which is fine by the SaaS providers, or course. But it doesn't really foster understanding of the world around you. Like kids thinking corn comes from the corn factory.
- lkdfjlkdfjlg 2y ago
  When I was a kid I used to think that pasta came from a pasta factory.
  - defrost 2y ago
    When we were children we were taught about the spaghetti harvest: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tVo_wkxH9dU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tVo_wkxH9dU
  - wheybags 2y ago
    Hah, so young and foolish. Everyone knows pasta grows on trees: https://youtube.com/watch?v=8scpGwbvxvI https://youtube.com/watch?v=8scpGwbvxvI
  - deleted 2y ago
    [deleted]
- falcor84 2y ago
  I think that part of the reason for my thinking is that I've recently been playing around with USD (Universal Scene Description). It is currently mostly based on files, but I find the underlying representation - of layers of atomic properties being composed together in a massive tree - to be very elegant, and it can be managed in a database without any files or blobs anywhere. As another example: in the early web, behind every url was a file (with an actual file extension), but then we abstracted them into resources, and I feel that this coincided with an evolution of the field. The concept of a file or blob will probably still be useful in some capacity for decades to come, but I wouldn't want it to hinder us from realizing better abstractions.
jen729w 2y ago
Until you try creating one of those videos, and now you need .movs and .mp3s and .pngs and a place to store the render output. Files have a way to go yet.
- jen729w 2y ago
  Also, replying to myself, have you ever had a job? At a place? Where the primary function isn't coding? Files are everywhere. They are every-thing. Except now, thanks to the disaster that is SharePoint, nobody has a fucking idea where they are any more. Because they've been abstracted away by some genius on the Teams team. So nobody can find what they were just working on. Or they have no idea if the thing they find is the right version. It's a total shambles. A hierarchical file system was boring, but it worked. And it still does. Disclosure: I'm Johnny.Decimal and my business depends on files still being a thing.
  - moffkalast 2y ago
    I can't believe I'm seriously reading a discussion around the existence of files, what is this, an SNL sketch? This very site is being served from a file system.
    - HenryBemis 2y ago
      I don't think the comment was about the "file system", more like about the "humans" that dump every file they have to whichever folder they find available, and in the end of the day/week/month/year nobody knows where that file is. And then the person leaves the company/org and this file will float in space (SharePoint) forever, never to be recalled again, never to be read again, alone, in a cold world (computer room). Speaking about SNL sketch.. it reminded me James Cameron's reaction on the Papyrus sketch --> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wm1-k__LF40 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wm1-k__LF40
      - falcor84 2y ago
        >And then the person leaves the company/org and this file will float in space (SharePoint) forever, never to be recalled again, never to be read again, alone, in a cold world (computer room). It will likely eventually be used as training data for an LLM and get an afterlife. Resistance is futile.

isoprophlex 2y ago

Sure, call them byte streams or blobs, that's fine too. I'm not disagreeing, but the point I wanted to make was that recently, people seem to have gotten the idea that their objects are semi-magical things locked into some app or some cloud service. Which is fine by the SaaS providers, or course. But it doesn't really foster understanding of the world around you. Like kids thinking corn comes from the corn factory.

lkdfjlkdfjlg 2y ago
When I was a kid I used to think that pasta came from a pasta factory.
- defrost 2y ago
  When we were children we were taught about the spaghetti harvest: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tVo_wkxH9dU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tVo_wkxH9dU
- wheybags 2y ago
  Hah, so young and foolish. Everyone knows pasta grows on trees: https://youtube.com/watch?v=8scpGwbvxvI https://youtube.com/watch?v=8scpGwbvxvI
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
falcor84 2y ago
I think that part of the reason for my thinking is that I've recently been playing around with USD (Universal Scene Description). It is currently mostly based on files, but I find the underlying representation - of layers of atomic properties being composed together in a massive tree - to be very elegant, and it can be managed in a database without any files or blobs anywhere. As another example: in the early web, behind every url was a file (with an actual file extension), but then we abstracted them into resources, and I feel that this coincided with an evolution of the field. The concept of a file or blob will probably still be useful in some capacity for decades to come, but I wouldn't want it to hinder us from realizing better abstractions.

jen729w 2y ago

Until you try creating one of those videos, and now you need .movs and .mp3s and .pngs and a place to store the render output. Files have a way to go yet.

jen729w 2y ago
Also, replying to myself, have you ever had a job? At a place? Where the primary function isn't coding? Files are everywhere. They are every-thing. Except now, thanks to the disaster that is SharePoint, nobody has a fucking idea where they are any more. Because they've been abstracted away by some genius on the Teams team. So nobody can find what they were just working on. Or they have no idea if the thing they find is the right version. It's a total shambles. A hierarchical file system was boring, but it worked. And it still does. Disclosure: I'm Johnny.Decimal and my business depends on files still being a thing.
- moffkalast 2y ago
  I can't believe I'm seriously reading a discussion around the existence of files, what is this, an SNL sketch? This very site is being served from a file system.
  - HenryBemis 2y ago
    I don't think the comment was about the "file system", more like about the "humans" that dump every file they have to whichever folder they find available, and in the end of the day/week/month/year nobody knows where that file is. And then the person leaves the company/org and this file will float in space (SharePoint) forever, never to be recalled again, never to be read again, alone, in a cold world (computer room). Speaking about SNL sketch.. it reminded me James Cameron's reaction on the Papyrus sketch --> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wm1-k__LF40 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wm1-k__LF40
    - falcor84 2y ago
      >And then the person leaves the company/org and this file will float in space (SharePoint) forever, never to be recalled again, never to be read again, alone, in a cold world (computer room). It will likely eventually be used as training data for an LLM and get an afterlife. Resistance is futile.