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Rightly so. University degrees should be good investments that pay huge dividends for time and tuition, they largely are not. University degrees should confer

Rightly so. University degrees should be good investments that pay huge dividends for time and tuition, they largely are not. University degrees should confer a broad perspective, independence, and the skills and knowledge to make one truly free to pursue their ambitions in life, they largely do not. They have become certificate mills where people generally don't care about learning anything but just are looking to pass the test and get the credential. I have known way too many people with degrees who just can't think for themselves and who either learned a very specific set of skills or really none at all.

meroes 2y ago
Well since the 1970s the official policy by the US govt is the STEM pipeline is for making more STEM workers. Broad perspective is basically 50 years by the wayside. It’s completely intended and unsurprising you know few with liberal independence.
- dantheman 2y ago
  Only 18% of degrees are in STEM https://nces.ed.gov/programs/raceindicators/indicator_reg.asp https://nces.ed.gov/programs/raceindicators/indicator_reg.as...
derbOac 2y ago
The other side of the equation is mindless algorithmic HR hiring practices though, where a college degree is treated much the same as a vendor training certificate. The way people are often handled is mindless, as if all you're capable of is what is on your degree, regardless of experience or skillset. There's also the creep of totally unnecessary degree requirements even in managerial and executive levels, to pad institutional materials and argue for even higher salaries. In the professional realm it acts as a form of rent seeking, artificially decreasing supply. I don't necessarily disagree with you but part of the reasons why people seek out unnecessary degrees just to learn a specific set of skills is because it's demanded of them by HR and hiring teams, or regulations.
ryandrake 2y ago
When employers just want to see the credential, then students will just do what it takes to get the credential. And so many employers (needlessly IMO) use the credential to gatekeep access to professional jobs. Employers have turned universities into shams where you pay $100K, wait four years, and pop out with a paper that says "I can be employed."
throwaway14356 2y ago
i use to play with the idea to provide books, a bed, laundry and food for free. Periodic tests serve only to throw you out. Nothing fancy, a basic meal. If you want to sleep eat and read for 50 years that should be fine. If there is no burning desire to apply yourself, engage the world or even just write a book we are probably better of without it. You can be the helpdesk for other readers in stead.
Nasrudith 2y ago
You get what you measure for and well, good luck measuring abstracts like 'a broad perspective, independence, and the skills and knowledge to make one truly free to pursue their ambitions in life'. Especially when you never ask what their ambitions in life were, or if they are anything remotely achievable or assisted by college. In that light is it any surprise that instead of getting the mother-and-apple-pie you get certificate mills?

meroes 2y ago

Well since the 1970s the official policy by the US govt is the STEM pipeline is for making more STEM workers. Broad perspective is basically 50 years by the wayside. It’s completely intended and unsurprising you know few with liberal independence.

dantheman 2y ago
Only 18% of degrees are in STEM https://nces.ed.gov/programs/raceindicators/indicator_reg.asp https://nces.ed.gov/programs/raceindicators/indicator_reg.as...

derbOac 2y ago

The other side of the equation is mindless algorithmic HR hiring practices though, where a college degree is treated much the same as a vendor training certificate. The way people are often handled is mindless, as if all you're capable of is what is on your degree, regardless of experience or skillset. There's also the creep of totally unnecessary degree requirements even in managerial and executive levels, to pad institutional materials and argue for even higher salaries. In the professional realm it acts as a form of rent seeking, artificially decreasing supply. I don't necessarily disagree with you but part of the reasons why people seek out unnecessary degrees just to learn a specific set of skills is because it's demanded of them by HR and hiring teams, or regulations.

ryandrake 2y ago

When employers just want to see the credential, then students will just do what it takes to get the credential. And so many employers (needlessly IMO) use the credential to gatekeep access to professional jobs. Employers have turned universities into shams where you pay $100K, wait four years, and pop out with a paper that says "I can be employed."

throwaway14356 2y ago

i use to play with the idea to provide books, a bed, laundry and food for free. Periodic tests serve only to throw you out. Nothing fancy, a basic meal. If you want to sleep eat and read for 50 years that should be fine. If there is no burning desire to apply yourself, engage the world or even just write a book we are probably better of without it. You can be the helpdesk for other readers in stead.

Nasrudith 2y ago

You get what you measure for and well, good luck measuring abstracts like 'a broad perspective, independence, and the skills and knowledge to make one truly free to pursue their ambitions in life'. Especially when you never ask what their ambitions in life were, or if they are anything remotely achievable or assisted by college. In that light is it any surprise that instead of getting the mother-and-apple-pie you get certificate mills?