5 ms·

Is there anything beyond "vote and encourage others to vote" that an average American citizen could do to help prevent such a tragedy from occurring?

by Carrok 2y ago

omegaworks 2y ago
Protest at the conventions. Support people civilly disobeying. Call your congresspeople and demand that they put a candidate on the ballot that can make a coherent case against this policy. Backroom discussions are happening right now to determine whether or not Biden will be replaced by someone that can actually win.
- UncleOxidant 2y ago
  How would that help NOAA survive?
  - omegaworks 2y ago
    We need a candidate on the ballot that can make a coherent case against Trump.
    - UncleOxidant 2y ago
      If we get to the convention and they haven't changed candidates by then it's probably going to be too late, unfortunately.
      - omegaworks 2y ago
        The original post asked what can you do. Apart from hopelessness, you can put your body on the line. Hold a sign. Be present. Take up space. It's something.
      - mrguyorama 2y ago
        Biden could be a literal corpse come election day and his cabinet/admin will still not paywall NOAA so why does that matter? Both Trump and Biden are abysmal picks, for rather different reasons, but come November 9th, one of them will be chosen as the winner, because that's how the American electoral system is designed. If you don't like either of them, it doesn't matter. They still have explicit visions and plans for the future of the country, and surely you like one more than the other right? People need to get this "perfect candidate is the enemy of the least-worst candidate" shit out of their head. The American political system was designed by a bunch of ethics and philosophy turbo nerds with an insanely optimistic view of how humans organize, a blatent neglect of already understood problems (refusing to create a term limit for the presidency even as Washington was trying to avoid being president for life, choosing to take no preventative action against the formation of political parties despite them obviously forming before the constitution was even finished, no formal system of succession, even though politicians were still dueling each other), and zero systems engineering or practical experience. It is flawed in all the ways you would expect a student project from first timers will be. This stupid system is the one we are stuck with, and by design it can only be changed by participation, unless you are fine with murdering half your neighbors to enact a populist revolution and also convince everyone else to murder half their neighbors in your populist revolution. Staying home isn't a protest. Not voting doesn't hurt anyone but yourself. Choose the direction you want the country to go in.
- sickofparadox 2y ago
  They (DNC leadership) are already pushing him onto the ballot before the convention under the guise of meeting the Ohio ballot requirement, while ignoring that Ohio gave them an exception for the convention. https://www.axios.com/2024/07/16/biden-dnc-vote-nomination-states-2024-election https://www.axios.com/2024/07/16/biden-dnc-vote-nomination-s...
  - Bluestrike2 2y ago
    While there's almost certainly an element of "let's get this done and over with before the push to switch out Biden grows even larger," Jamie Harrison's explanation[0] would suggest that there's still a very real legal concern behind the push. Specifically, this little nugget[1] from the Ohio Constitution: > [...]No law passed by the general assembly shall go into effect until ninety days after it shall have been filed by the governor in the office of the secretary of state, except as herein provided.[...] So while Ohio eventually passed a law that would extend the deadline to avoid the original problem, because it wasn't done passed as an emergency law not subject to referendum[2] since that would have required a 2/3 majority, that law doesn't actually go into effect until 90 days after its passage. In other words, the law changing the notification requirement from 90 days prior to a general election doesn't actually go into effect until 90 days after its passage...which is after the original notification deadline. It might seem like a technicality, but it all but guarantees the issue will have to be litigated and there's a significant possibility Democrats would lose the case in that case. Risking the possibility of Biden being left off the ballot as a result would be an absurd dereliction on the DNC's part. 0. https://x.com/harrisonjaime/status/1813241706990473389 https://x.com/harrisonjaime/status/1813241706990473389 1. https://codes.ohio.gov/ohio-constitution/section-2.1c https://codes.ohio.gov/ohio-constitution/section-2.1c 2. https://codes.ohio.gov/ohio-constitution/section-2.1d https://codes.ohio.gov/ohio-constitution/section-2.1d
  - omegaworks 2y ago
    There is still concerted effort from both within[1] and outside the party[2] to push back against rushing the process. His fate is by no means guaranteed. 1. https://www.politico.com/news/2024/07/16/pelosi-biden-2024-elections-00168767 https://www.politico.com/news/2024/07/16/pelosi-biden-2024-e... 2. https://x.com/ClimateDefiance/status/1813265814885118081 https://x.com/ClimateDefiance/status/1813265814885118081
UncleOxidant 2y ago
There really doesn't seem to be much else we can do. Write your congressfolks - especially if you've got red congressfolk (if they're blue congressfolk they'll already want to make sure that NOAA survives). This is just one issue out of many that highlight the stakes involved.
- omegaworks 2y ago
  >if they're blue congressfolk they'll already want to make sure that NOAA survives Even the blues will want to know that their constituents are paying attention. Swing state blues especially tend to lose their spine without support from their base. Call them anyway and tell them to replace Biden with someone that can actually make a coherent case against Trump. These backroom discussions are happening right now.
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
room505 2y ago
Volunteer. You can start here - https://www.mobilize.us/ https://www.mobilize.us/
rchaud 2y ago
You'd first have to drop the pretence of neutrality that most voting advocacy efforts lead with. Only one party has a policy platform of gutting state and federal bodies that are thorns in their climate change denialism. People who need encouragement to vote aren't going to do their own research and dont have the ability to analyze the repercussions of their vote. NOAA policy isn't going to be mentioned on the campaign trail.
- tivert 2y ago
  > You'd first have to drop the pretence of neutrality that most voting advocacy efforts lead with. I bet there are legal and practical requirements for that. For instance, a lack of a pretense of neutrality would probably undermine the voters' feeling that they're exercising their voice, and instead make many of them less likely to vote because feel like they're being used to serve someone else's goals.
- skissane 2y ago
  > Only one party has a policy platform of gutting state and federal bodies that are thorns in their climate change denialism. Neither Republicans nor Democrats have such a policy platform. The official 2024 Republican Party Platform [0] doesn't mention anything about gutting the NOAA. Project 2025 isn't part of the Republican platform–it isn't an official Republican Party document. It is just a wishlist from a coalition of conservative thinktanks. While those thinktanks are Republican-aligned, it would be a mistake to think any given GOP politician (Trump included) necessarily agrees with any or all of their proposals (or is even aware of them), and their proposals have no official status in the Republican Party. From time to time, Democratic-aligned thinktanks and groups publish their own "wishlists", and those aren't official Democratic Party policies either. [0] https://www.presidency.ucsb.edu/documents/2024-republican-party-platform https://www.presidency.ucsb.edu/documents/2024-republican-pa...
  - vel0city 2y ago
    > 2. Rein in Wasteful Federal Spending > Republicans will immediately stabilize the Economy by slashing wasteful Government spending and promoting Economic Growth. Just need to read between the lines. Project 2025 argues NOAA is wasteful and ineffective public spending. The party platform is to eliminate wasteful public spending. Hmm...I wonder what'll get cut... It is incredible to see people argue policy documents pushed by most of the largest conservative think tanks will probably have no bearing on anything the GOP will do. As if the Heritage Foundation has little to no influence over the modern GOP. What a joker. And especially when it comes with neutering NOAA, its like everyone just forgot they were pretty close to doing it a few years ago. And have tried it in the past as well. You're essentially arguing for people to not trust what their eyes are seeing. This isn't some random one-off policy document spun this year, this is stuff the GOP has been trying to do for twenty fucking years. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Weather_Service_Duties_Act_of_2005 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Weather_Service_Dutie... https://apnews.com/united-states-government-00158c5aac494e0e917d5f046b29d5b2 https://apnews.com/united-states-government-00158c5aac494e0e...
Joel_Mckay 2y ago
It is the US citizens that must make the best decision for themselves. I have faith that their kindness will always win, as the vicious must hurt those around them by their very nature. =)
- euroderf 2y ago
  Related: You are not punished for your sins. You are punished by your sins.
- LadyCailin 2y ago
  Your faith is poorly placed.
  - Joel_Mckay 2y ago
    If one wants to live an honorable pleasant life, than honestly vote for your own interests. It is wise to acknowledge people as they are, and not as one would like them to be... Note this perspective is not necessarily incompatible with Neutral Evil alignments. =)
mrguyorama 2y ago
Convince literally everyone you have ever spoken to, regardless of opinions or political affiliations, that they should vote. A hundred million Americans have this insane idea that voting doesn't matter, or doesn't change things, or they don't like their options enough, as if that means somehow one of the two options won't end up in charge in a couple months. The point of voting is not to get your personal favorite personality at the highest office. The point of voting is to take a poll that explicitly influences the direction your organization goes. Advocate aggressively for things like ranked choice voting and voting holidays to ensure typically poor, underpriviledged people have no more excuses to not vote.
- Jtsummers 2y ago
  > A hundred million Americans have this insane idea that voting doesn't matter, or doesn't change things, or they don't like their options enough, as if that means somehow one of the two options won't end up in charge in a couple months. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voter_turnout_in_United_States_presidential_elections https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voter_turnout_in_United_States... Some people may think that first part is hyperbolic but it's really not far off from the real numbers. In 2020 we had a better than normal turnout with 2/3rds of the voting eligible public voting. Even with that, though, 80 million or so eligible voters didn't vote.
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]

Is there anything beyond "vote and encourage others to vote" that an average American citizen could do to help prevent such a tragedy from occurring?

by Carrok 2y ago

Is there anything beyond "vote and encourage others to vote" that an average American citizen could do to help prevent such a tragedy from occurring?

omegaworks 2y ago

Protest at the conventions. Support people civilly disobeying. Call your congresspeople and demand that they put a candidate on the ballot that can make a coherent case against this policy. Backroom discussions are happening right now to determine whether or not Biden will be replaced by someone that can actually win.

UncleOxidant 2y ago
How would that help NOAA survive?
- omegaworks 2y ago
  We need a candidate on the ballot that can make a coherent case against Trump.
  - UncleOxidant 2y ago
    If we get to the convention and they haven't changed candidates by then it's probably going to be too late, unfortunately.
    - omegaworks 2y ago
      The original post asked what can you do. Apart from hopelessness, you can put your body on the line. Hold a sign. Be present. Take up space. It's something.
    - mrguyorama 2y ago
      Biden could be a literal corpse come election day and his cabinet/admin will still not paywall NOAA so why does that matter? Both Trump and Biden are abysmal picks, for rather different reasons, but come November 9th, one of them will be chosen as the winner, because that's how the American electoral system is designed. If you don't like either of them, it doesn't matter. They still have explicit visions and plans for the future of the country, and surely you like one more than the other right? People need to get this "perfect candidate is the enemy of the least-worst candidate" shit out of their head. The American political system was designed by a bunch of ethics and philosophy turbo nerds with an insanely optimistic view of how humans organize, a blatent neglect of already understood problems (refusing to create a term limit for the presidency even as Washington was trying to avoid being president for life, choosing to take no preventative action against the formation of political parties despite them obviously forming before the constitution was even finished, no formal system of succession, even though politicians were still dueling each other), and zero systems engineering or practical experience. It is flawed in all the ways you would expect a student project from first timers will be. This stupid system is the one we are stuck with, and by design it can only be changed by participation, unless you are fine with murdering half your neighbors to enact a populist revolution and also convince everyone else to murder half their neighbors in your populist revolution. Staying home isn't a protest. Not voting doesn't hurt anyone but yourself. Choose the direction you want the country to go in.
sickofparadox 2y ago
They (DNC leadership) are already pushing him onto the ballot before the convention under the guise of meeting the Ohio ballot requirement, while ignoring that Ohio gave them an exception for the convention. https://www.axios.com/2024/07/16/biden-dnc-vote-nomination-states-2024-election https://www.axios.com/2024/07/16/biden-dnc-vote-nomination-s...
- Bluestrike2 2y ago
  While there's almost certainly an element of "let's get this done and over with before the push to switch out Biden grows even larger," Jamie Harrison's explanation[0] would suggest that there's still a very real legal concern behind the push. Specifically, this little nugget[1] from the Ohio Constitution: > [...]No law passed by the general assembly shall go into effect until ninety days after it shall have been filed by the governor in the office of the secretary of state, except as herein provided.[...] So while Ohio eventually passed a law that would extend the deadline to avoid the original problem, because it wasn't done passed as an emergency law not subject to referendum[2] since that would have required a 2/3 majority, that law doesn't actually go into effect until 90 days after its passage. In other words, the law changing the notification requirement from 90 days prior to a general election doesn't actually go into effect until 90 days after its passage...which is after the original notification deadline. It might seem like a technicality, but it all but guarantees the issue will have to be litigated and there's a significant possibility Democrats would lose the case in that case. Risking the possibility of Biden being left off the ballot as a result would be an absurd dereliction on the DNC's part. 0. https://x.com/harrisonjaime/status/1813241706990473389 https://x.com/harrisonjaime/status/1813241706990473389 1. https://codes.ohio.gov/ohio-constitution/section-2.1c https://codes.ohio.gov/ohio-constitution/section-2.1c 2. https://codes.ohio.gov/ohio-constitution/section-2.1d https://codes.ohio.gov/ohio-constitution/section-2.1d
- omegaworks 2y ago
  There is still concerted effort from both within[1] and outside the party[2] to push back against rushing the process. His fate is by no means guaranteed. 1. https://www.politico.com/news/2024/07/16/pelosi-biden-2024-elections-00168767 https://www.politico.com/news/2024/07/16/pelosi-biden-2024-e... 2. https://x.com/ClimateDefiance/status/1813265814885118081 https://x.com/ClimateDefiance/status/1813265814885118081

UncleOxidant 2y ago

There really doesn't seem to be much else we can do. Write your congressfolks - especially if you've got red congressfolk (if they're blue congressfolk they'll already want to make sure that NOAA survives). This is just one issue out of many that highlight the stakes involved.

omegaworks 2y ago
>if they're blue congressfolk they'll already want to make sure that NOAA survives Even the blues will want to know that their constituents are paying attention. Swing state blues especially tend to lose their spine without support from their base. Call them anyway and tell them to replace Biden with someone that can actually make a coherent case against Trump. These backroom discussions are happening right now.
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]

room505 2y ago

Volunteer. You can start here - https://www.mobilize.us/ https://www.mobilize.us/

rchaud 2y ago

You'd first have to drop the pretence of neutrality that most voting advocacy efforts lead with. Only one party has a policy platform of gutting state and federal bodies that are thorns in their climate change denialism. People who need encouragement to vote aren't going to do their own research and dont have the ability to analyze the repercussions of their vote. NOAA policy isn't going to be mentioned on the campaign trail.

tivert 2y ago
> You'd first have to drop the pretence of neutrality that most voting advocacy efforts lead with. I bet there are legal and practical requirements for that. For instance, a lack of a pretense of neutrality would probably undermine the voters' feeling that they're exercising their voice, and instead make many of them less likely to vote because feel like they're being used to serve someone else's goals.
skissane 2y ago
> Only one party has a policy platform of gutting state and federal bodies that are thorns in their climate change denialism. Neither Republicans nor Democrats have such a policy platform. The official 2024 Republican Party Platform [0] doesn't mention anything about gutting the NOAA. Project 2025 isn't part of the Republican platform–it isn't an official Republican Party document. It is just a wishlist from a coalition of conservative thinktanks. While those thinktanks are Republican-aligned, it would be a mistake to think any given GOP politician (Trump included) necessarily agrees with any or all of their proposals (or is even aware of them), and their proposals have no official status in the Republican Party. From time to time, Democratic-aligned thinktanks and groups publish their own "wishlists", and those aren't official Democratic Party policies either. [0] https://www.presidency.ucsb.edu/documents/2024-republican-party-platform https://www.presidency.ucsb.edu/documents/2024-republican-pa...
- vel0city 2y ago
  > 2. Rein in Wasteful Federal Spending > Republicans will immediately stabilize the Economy by slashing wasteful Government spending and promoting Economic Growth. Just need to read between the lines. Project 2025 argues NOAA is wasteful and ineffective public spending. The party platform is to eliminate wasteful public spending. Hmm...I wonder what'll get cut... It is incredible to see people argue policy documents pushed by most of the largest conservative think tanks will probably have no bearing on anything the GOP will do. As if the Heritage Foundation has little to no influence over the modern GOP. What a joker. And especially when it comes with neutering NOAA, its like everyone just forgot they were pretty close to doing it a few years ago. And have tried it in the past as well. You're essentially arguing for people to not trust what their eyes are seeing. This isn't some random one-off policy document spun this year, this is stuff the GOP has been trying to do for twenty fucking years. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Weather_Service_Duties_Act_of_2005 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Weather_Service_Dutie... https://apnews.com/united-states-government-00158c5aac494e0e917d5f046b29d5b2 https://apnews.com/united-states-government-00158c5aac494e0e...

Joel_Mckay 2y ago

It is the US citizens that must make the best decision for themselves. I have faith that their kindness will always win, as the vicious must hurt those around them by their very nature. =)

euroderf 2y ago
Related: You are not punished for your sins. You are punished by your sins.
LadyCailin 2y ago
Your faith is poorly placed.
- Joel_Mckay 2y ago
  If one wants to live an honorable pleasant life, than honestly vote for your own interests. It is wise to acknowledge people as they are, and not as one would like them to be... Note this perspective is not necessarily incompatible with Neutral Evil alignments. =)

mrguyorama 2y ago

Convince literally everyone you have ever spoken to, regardless of opinions or political affiliations, that they should vote. A hundred million Americans have this insane idea that voting doesn't matter, or doesn't change things, or they don't like their options enough, as if that means somehow one of the two options won't end up in charge in a couple months. The point of voting is not to get your personal favorite personality at the highest office. The point of voting is to take a poll that explicitly influences the direction your organization goes. Advocate aggressively for things like ranked choice voting and voting holidays to ensure typically poor, underpriviledged people have no more excuses to not vote.

Jtsummers 2y ago
> A hundred million Americans have this insane idea that voting doesn't matter, or doesn't change things, or they don't like their options enough, as if that means somehow one of the two options won't end up in charge in a couple months. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voter_turnout_in_United_States_presidential_elections https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voter_turnout_in_United_States... Some people may think that first part is hyperbolic but it's really not far off from the real numbers. In 2020 we had a better than normal turnout with 2/3rds of the voting eligible public voting. Even with that, though, 80 million or so eligible voters didn't vote.

deleted 2y ago

[deleted]