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He's looked at levels.fyi. He even links to it from his resume. His problem is that he thinks L10 is the benchmark to compare against, when the vast, vast maj
by morgante 2y ago
He's looked at levels.fyi.
He even links to it from his resume.
His problem is that he thinks L10 is the benchmark to compare against, when the vast, vast majority of engineers (including many with decades of experience) would never make it to L10.
- moandcompany 2y agoL10 is generally the Vice President level at a company like Google or Facebook. The vast majority of engineers will never make it to L10.
- MarkSweep 2y agoI think L8 is equivalent to vice president. L10 is labeled as "Google Fellow" on levels.fyi. There is a Wikipedia category for Google Fellows and it has 9 people listed. I'd be surprised if this count was off by more than an order of magnitude or two. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Google_Fellows https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Google_Fellows
- wepple 2y agoFellow and VP are not the same track. L8 is director level. So L10 might be both fellow and VP, given that Senior Director exists so is probably L9
- moandcompany 2y agoL8 and L9 are Director/Senior Director positions. In the software engineering family of career ladders, it is part of the Engineering Manager career ladder, which generally starts at L6, with occasional L5 managers (L5 SWE individual contributors transitioning to manager track). The technical/individual contributor track also has L8 and L9 Director/Senior Director levels. Sometimes it's referred to as a "Principal" level in Product Areas like Cloud, but there are far fewer L8+ people on individual contributor career ladders (i.e. tracks) than on management ladders. L8 is considered the start of Google's "executive levels," where individuals at this level and above are privy to executive-level training, perks, etc. Google Fellows are generally L10 (i.e. Vice President equivalent level), if I recall correctly. Jeff Dean would be a canonical example of a Vice President equivalent level, however Jeff Dean also ended up being a manager/organizational head of the Research Product Area for several years as a Fellow. Vint Cerf may be another useful example of a Fellow / Vice President equivalent. (My statements here are from having personally done statistical analysis of career ladders and levels at Google and Alphabet as a whole)
- ryandrake 2y agoHN commenters do this all the time, though. They'll take, say, an "L6 Google + Bay Area + Top End + Most Favorable Stock Market" compensation number, and then say "Most tech employees make this much."
- lesuorac 2y agoWhat number is that? Because like L3 is 200k so I'm not sure if you're seeing people post 600k as a reference point or 200k.
- ryandrake 2y agoThe numbers HNers claim to be "usual compensations" change every year, but they are almost always what would be a top compensation for a top employee at a top faang in a top cost-of-labor locale in a rapidly rising bull market.
- mcguire 2y agoAnnual mean wage for Software Developers, 2023, according to the BLS: Metropolitan areas with the highest employment level in Software Developers Metropolitan area Employment Employment Location Hourly Annual per 1000 jobs quotient mean wage mean wage New York-Newark-Jersey City,... 119,010 12.53 1.15 $ 73.12 $ 152,100 San Jose-Sunnyvale-Santa Clara, CA 96,590 84.60 7.75 $ 96.06 $ 199,800 San Francisco-Oakland-Hayward, CA 83,920 34.65 3.18 $ 87.13 $ 181,220 https://www.bls.gov/oes/current/oes151252.htm https://www.bls.gov/oes/current/oes151252.htm
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- morgante 2y agoStill, L10 is patently ridiculous. He is not L10.
- gloryjulio 2y agoThe benchmark should be l4-l5. Even l6 is rare. His benchmark is ridiculous