4 ms·

Sigh. First of all, Nadella has created a trillion dollars of value over his leadership. His pay packet of $40m is nothing. Second, the E was never about equa

by zpeti 2y ago

Sigh. First of all, Nadella has created a trillion dollars of value over his leadership. His pay packet of $40m is nothing. Second, the E was never about equality of pay, or fairness. It’s equity. It was about quotas in hiring and equality of outcome, meaning active discrimination against certain groups. Which does cross a very dangerous line.

blitzar 2y ago
An untrained chimp would have created 2 trillion dollars of value durring the same period sitting in that seat.
- ssijak 2y ago
  No it would not
- zpeti 2y ago
  Why didn’t IBM, oracle, or google or apple do it then? Or you? You do realise you are saying, if you haven’t done it, you are less than an untrained chimp yourself, just by the logic of your statement?
  - blitzar 2y ago
    > Or you? Because I didnt take over Microsoft, a 40 year old company, with monopolies firmly entrenched in 2014.
    - Rinzler89 2y ago
      A lot off other companies are monopolies in their fields.
    - inglor_cz 2y ago
      That is no guarantee of future results. Nokia, another company which was very strong a decade ago, is de facto gone.
- onel 2y ago
  This type of comment is not for HN
lupusreal 2y ago
The E doesn't even stand for Equality, it stands for Equity. If it meant the same thing they'd just use the word more people are familiar with, but they specifically don't because they do not mean equality. Achieving "equity" means they need/want to treat people unequally.
- Izkata 2y ago
  That's what the post you responded to said, did you mean to respond to someone else?
starspangled 2y ago
I didn't speculate on whether or not he earns or deserves it. It's just antithetical to the concept of equity as used in DEI, which is roughly equal outcome despite unequal circumstance. You might tell me here why in fact it does not actually apply here because reasons, if so fine I'm not an expert on DEI matters. But that would not be so relevant to my point, which is common understanding and concepts people have around that word potentially having difficulty coexisting with highly stratified company like MS.
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
surgical_fire 2y ago
> First of all, Nadella has created a trillion dollars of value over his leadership Who built Thebes of the seven gates? In the books you will find the names of kings. Did the kings haul up the lumps of rock?
- SR2Z 2y ago
  It is much harder to build something vast than it is to haul a lump of rock up a hill. Nadella may not be carrying rocks but he's the one figuring out which rocks and where they should go.
  - surgical_fire 2y ago
    This is just the reflection of a bullshit culture that gives outsized importance to executives.
    - zpeti 2y ago
      Why is Microsoft winning the ai race, not google who everyone said is best placed? Was this a collective decision by thousands of Microsoft employees, to go in this direction? Is it thousands of google employees fault they missed it? By your logic it is absolutely google employees fault, not executives… really?? The bullshit culture is actually thinking executives don’t do anything. Yet even a tiny bit of critical thinking would show you it has massive impact.
      - surgical_fire 2y ago
        And yet, Google's CEO is not punished for "losing the AI race". Or for anything else really. > By your logic it is absolutely google employees fault, not executives… really?? My logic is that placing an outsized importance on executives is just a way to justify inequality, when in truth they risk nothing. Even if their bets fail, it is the peons who pay the price.
    - inglor_cz 2y ago
      I would argue that coordinating efforts of thousands of people is freakishly complicated. People aren't machines and respond to incentives in nontrivial ways. Anyone who is physically healthy can carry a stone, but few places in the world built the pyramids. Analogically, anyone with two hands can type something on a keyboard, the hard part is getting a useful software product out of this typing. Even outside the commercial sphere, leaders of such complicated projects are famous, such as Linus Torvalds.
sofixa 2y ago
> First of all, Nadella has created a trillion dollars of value over his leadership. His pay packet of $40m is nothing Unless he was going to pay out of his pocket if he bankrupted Microsoft, that argument doesn't pass the sniff test. Also, he has created a trillion dollars of valuation. That's not the same thing as value, just ask the Japanese property market in the 1990s. Current stock price can also entirely disconnected from reality and mid to long term future, just ask GE and Boeing. If the AI/LLM hype dies down, a big chunk of that valuation will disappear, without anything meaningfully changing.
- zpeti 2y ago
  No, a lot of that value (and revenue, something you are missing!) was created before AI. Azure, office 365, cloud, these were all massive to Microsoft and had created loads of value and revenue. That isn’t a bubble. Also AI might be hype, but it might not. Microsoft managed to get in at the right time with the right company, and is doing better than google, apple, amazon and many others. To give no credit to Nadella is ridiculous there are so many other companies waiting to take Microsoft’s place. I find this resentful envy here on HN extremely sad and also very dishonest.
  - sofixa 2y ago
    > To give no credit to Nadella I'm giving him plenty of credit, he's the first competent CEO of Microsoft in a decade. Does that mean he deserves $40million/year while his company is laying off people to save on employee salaries? No, simple as that. CEOs aren't some great superhumans that everything happens because of. They have a very important positions, and many CEOs have ruined or bankrupted companies through sheer incompetence, while many others have created amazing value (both societal and economic). They are not deities, they deserve prison and for their money to be seized when they commit crimes, and they don't deserve to be paid thousands of times more than the median employees that actually do the work and execute on the CEO's vision. > I find this resentful envy here on HN extremely sad and also very dishonest. It's disdain for sociopathy more than anything else. I personally can tell you that if I were a CEO, I would not be able to sleep at night if my company's revenue, profits and valuation are booming and I fire tens of thousands of people for no other reason than because I can and it will keep costs (that the company can easily afford) down.
Eddy_Viscosity2 2y ago
> Nadella has created a trillion dollars of value You mean that he happened to be CEO during a period when market value increased due to a number of factors beyond his control or influence.

by zpeti 2y ago

blitzar 2y ago

An untrained chimp would have created 2 trillion dollars of value durring the same period sitting in that seat.

ssijak 2y ago
No it would not
zpeti 2y ago
Why didn’t IBM, oracle, or google or apple do it then? Or you? You do realise you are saying, if you haven’t done it, you are less than an untrained chimp yourself, just by the logic of your statement?
- blitzar 2y ago
  > Or you? Because I didnt take over Microsoft, a 40 year old company, with monopolies firmly entrenched in 2014.
  - Rinzler89 2y ago
    A lot off other companies are monopolies in their fields.
  - inglor_cz 2y ago
    That is no guarantee of future results. Nokia, another company which was very strong a decade ago, is de facto gone.
onel 2y ago
This type of comment is not for HN

lupusreal 2y ago

The E doesn't even stand for Equality, it stands for Equity. If it meant the same thing they'd just use the word more people are familiar with, but they specifically don't because they do not mean equality. Achieving "equity" means they need/want to treat people unequally.

Izkata 2y ago
That's what the post you responded to said, did you mean to respond to someone else?

starspangled 2y ago

I didn't speculate on whether or not he earns or deserves it. It's just antithetical to the concept of equity as used in DEI, which is roughly equal outcome despite unequal circumstance. You might tell me here why in fact it does not actually apply here because reasons, if so fine I'm not an expert on DEI matters. But that would not be so relevant to my point, which is common understanding and concepts people have around that word potentially having difficulty coexisting with highly stratified company like MS.

deleted 2y ago
[deleted]

surgical_fire 2y ago

> First of all, Nadella has created a trillion dollars of value over his leadership Who built Thebes of the seven gates? In the books you will find the names of kings. Did the kings haul up the lumps of rock?

SR2Z 2y ago
It is much harder to build something vast than it is to haul a lump of rock up a hill. Nadella may not be carrying rocks but he's the one figuring out which rocks and where they should go.
- surgical_fire 2y ago
  This is just the reflection of a bullshit culture that gives outsized importance to executives.
  - zpeti 2y ago
    Why is Microsoft winning the ai race, not google who everyone said is best placed? Was this a collective decision by thousands of Microsoft employees, to go in this direction? Is it thousands of google employees fault they missed it? By your logic it is absolutely google employees fault, not executives… really?? The bullshit culture is actually thinking executives don’t do anything. Yet even a tiny bit of critical thinking would show you it has massive impact.
    - surgical_fire 2y ago
      And yet, Google's CEO is not punished for "losing the AI race". Or for anything else really. > By your logic it is absolutely google employees fault, not executives… really?? My logic is that placing an outsized importance on executives is just a way to justify inequality, when in truth they risk nothing. Even if their bets fail, it is the peons who pay the price.
  - inglor_cz 2y ago
    I would argue that coordinating efforts of thousands of people is freakishly complicated. People aren't machines and respond to incentives in nontrivial ways. Anyone who is physically healthy can carry a stone, but few places in the world built the pyramids. Analogically, anyone with two hands can type something on a keyboard, the hard part is getting a useful software product out of this typing. Even outside the commercial sphere, leaders of such complicated projects are famous, such as Linus Torvalds.

sofixa 2y ago

> First of all, Nadella has created a trillion dollars of value over his leadership. His pay packet of $40m is nothing Unless he was going to pay out of his pocket if he bankrupted Microsoft, that argument doesn't pass the sniff test. Also, he has created a trillion dollars of valuation. That's not the same thing as value, just ask the Japanese property market in the 1990s. Current stock price can also entirely disconnected from reality and mid to long term future, just ask GE and Boeing. If the AI/LLM hype dies down, a big chunk of that valuation will disappear, without anything meaningfully changing.

zpeti 2y ago
No, a lot of that value (and revenue, something you are missing!) was created before AI. Azure, office 365, cloud, these were all massive to Microsoft and had created loads of value and revenue. That isn’t a bubble. Also AI might be hype, but it might not. Microsoft managed to get in at the right time with the right company, and is doing better than google, apple, amazon and many others. To give no credit to Nadella is ridiculous there are so many other companies waiting to take Microsoft’s place. I find this resentful envy here on HN extremely sad and also very dishonest.
- sofixa 2y ago
  > To give no credit to Nadella I'm giving him plenty of credit, he's the first competent CEO of Microsoft in a decade. Does that mean he deserves $40million/year while his company is laying off people to save on employee salaries? No, simple as that. CEOs aren't some great superhumans that everything happens because of. They have a very important positions, and many CEOs have ruined or bankrupted companies through sheer incompetence, while many others have created amazing value (both societal and economic). They are not deities, they deserve prison and for their money to be seized when they commit crimes, and they don't deserve to be paid thousands of times more than the median employees that actually do the work and execute on the CEO's vision. > I find this resentful envy here on HN extremely sad and also very dishonest. It's disdain for sociopathy more than anything else. I personally can tell you that if I were a CEO, I would not be able to sleep at night if my company's revenue, profits and valuation are booming and I fire tens of thousands of people for no other reason than because I can and it will keep costs (that the company can easily afford) down.

Eddy_Viscosity2 2y ago

> Nadella has created a trillion dollars of value You mean that he happened to be CEO during a period when market value increased due to a number of factors beyond his control or influence.