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Nobody is paying for trail apps just to see the trails. That’s not a paid feature, and the data is just scraped from OSM anyways - it doesn’t have value. Peop

Nobody is paying for trail apps just to see the trails. That’s not a paid feature, and the data is just scraped from OSM anyways - it doesn’t have value. People are paying for access to the social data layer on top of that - the reviews, the ride logs, the recommended routes, the reports of trail conditions and closures. And apple can’t just take that, because that’s the data that takes years to build up.

duskwuff 2y ago
Yep. As I've mentioned when this came up previously [1] - if all it takes to "Sherlock" an app like AllTrails is importing topo layers from USGS and trails from OSM, they didn't have much of a product. [1]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40721711 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40721711 - literally the same link, too
haswell 2y ago
I don't really agree with the first paragraph based on my personal experience with AllTrails. I think people pay for these apps for a variety of reasons. If all you want to do is look at a trail, I'm sure you can do that for free. But if you want to: - Find trails by distance from current location - Save maps offline (the app is worthless without this unless you're hiking in areas with cell coverage) - Go hiking without being bothered by ads - Gain access to a variety of map types (e.g. topo maps) Then you're going to be paying for the app. I personally never used the features you're describing with the exception of the overall star rating for a trail, which is already free. I can easily imagine a scenario where I no longer need to consider AllTrails+ if Apple built up a decent enough library of routes. I'm not an avid/serious hiker, but hike enough that I need the features that are currently behind the paywall. While ride logs and reviews sound useful, I frankly have never used them. I aspire to hike more, and to be getting on trails where that kind of data would be worth paying for, presumably for safety reasons. But that's not where I'm at right now, and I'd forego that data if it means I can save on subscription costs and limit my realtime location sharing to Apple. I'm the type of user Apple will be attracting, and I don't think my experience/usage is that atypical.
yftsui 2y ago
I am one of the persons bought AllTrails for a year just to see a single trail(i am not a hiking person),the prompt to subscribe is everywhere and so attempting thus I fell for it. “Reviews, routes reports of trail conditions” is probably the biggest scam of AllTrails for me, there was literally nothing for the one I was looking at. Ironically, there are better information on Washington Trails Association website.

duskwuff 2y ago

Yep. As I've mentioned when this came up previously [1] - if all it takes to "Sherlock" an app like AllTrails is importing topo layers from USGS and trails from OSM, they didn't have much of a product. [1]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40721711 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40721711 - literally the same link, too

haswell 2y ago

I don't really agree with the first paragraph based on my personal experience with AllTrails. I think people pay for these apps for a variety of reasons. If all you want to do is look at a trail, I'm sure you can do that for free. But if you want to: - Find trails by distance from current location - Save maps offline (the app is worthless without this unless you're hiking in areas with cell coverage) - Go hiking without being bothered by ads - Gain access to a variety of map types (e.g. topo maps) Then you're going to be paying for the app. I personally never used the features you're describing with the exception of the overall star rating for a trail, which is already free. I can easily imagine a scenario where I no longer need to consider AllTrails+ if Apple built up a decent enough library of routes. I'm not an avid/serious hiker, but hike enough that I need the features that are currently behind the paywall. While ride logs and reviews sound useful, I frankly have never used them. I aspire to hike more, and to be getting on trails where that kind of data would be worth paying for, presumably for safety reasons. But that's not where I'm at right now, and I'd forego that data if it means I can save on subscription costs and limit my realtime location sharing to Apple. I'm the type of user Apple will be attracting, and I don't think my experience/usage is that atypical.

yftsui 2y ago

I am one of the persons bought AllTrails for a year just to see a single trail(i am not a hiking person),the prompt to subscribe is everywhere and so attempting thus I fell for it. “Reviews, routes reports of trail conditions” is probably the biggest scam of AllTrails for me, there was literally nothing for the one I was looking at. Ironically, there are better information on Washington Trails Association website.