3 ms·

You are not wrong and I agree with you that this sort of bullshit is laughably unacceptable. Unfortunately nothing opt in ever gets wide adoption. So I expect

by somat 2y ago

You are not wrong and I agree with you that this sort of bullshit is laughably unacceptable. Unfortunately nothing opt in ever gets wide adoption. So I expect to keep seeing these sort of infernal acts as people get bright but misguided ideas that require broad adoption to work. for example googles wifi cataloging does not work at all if to get cataloged you have to put "_cataloged" in your ssid.

Zambyte 2y ago
> Unfortunately nothing opt in ever gets wide adoption. Computers were opt in.
- TeMPOraL 2y ago
  Until they weren't.
  - anonymousab 2y ago
    Yeah, widespread adoption will do that to things.
riiii 2y ago
> Unfortunately nothing opt in ever gets wide adoption Sharing your host's WiFi password with all your contacts should never get a wide adoption. It should never be an option anyway. It shows Microsoft's astonishing ignorance of security.
- dijit 2y ago
  Well, actually Apple is doing something similar, and it's opt-in. If you have a contact, they are in their settings, and they're nearby and they can see your wifi network, a prompt will appear on your phone which asks if you would like to share wifi credentials with them. There's some foolery going on to stop it popping up if you're using the device normally, like you have to be in settings or the home screen - or recently unlock your phone or something... But it's very explicitly: opt-in.
  - verandaguy 2y ago
    It's opt in for the person with the option to share network credentials. It's not opt-in for the owner of the network, who should really have a say in the matter. I do use this feature from time to time, but it's typically on networks where either I'm the owner, or the owner's given me permission to share the creds. This also opens up an attack surface (which I got to experience firsthand on a burner device at DEF CON 31), where someone spoofs an Apple device requesting network creds. The attack itself involves spamming share requests and catching you off guard, causing you to hit OK, or you just hit OK out of notification fatigue.
    - nlawalker 2y ago
      > It's not opt-in for the owner of the network, who should really have a say in the matter. Why? It’s literally just a shortcut for asking for the password from someone who already has it and then having it read it out loud or texted. If the owner of the network doesn’t want that happening they need to explain that in either case.
      - verandaguy 2y ago
        It’s a shortcut that deprives the network owner of agency. As the person running the network, should you not have some degree of control over who gets to join your network, be it fully open, fully closed, or anywhere in between?
        nlawalker 2y ago
        > It’s a shortcut that deprives the network owner of agency. It doesn’t, they have exactly as much agency as they would if the shortcut didn’t exist. > As the person running the network, should you not have some degree of control over who gets to join your network, be it fully open, fully closed, or anywhere in between? If you want more control than a shareable password provides, it’s on you to implement something other than a shareable password. A feature that merely helps people share passwords doesn’t change that.
        2y ago
nkrisc 2y ago
> Unfortunately nothing opt in ever gets wide adoption. Too fucking bad for them. This opt-out bullshit for everything like this, marketing emails, etc. is bullshit. I’m sick of it.
- acka 2y ago
  Don't forget the website cookie popup tomfoolery, where you must study each and every popup carefully lest you click the wrong button to opt out.
  - lifestyleguru 2y ago
    ...and they NEVER remember your preferences, well except your shopping preferences which will stick to you across networks and devices.

by somat 2y ago

Zambyte 2y ago

> Unfortunately nothing opt in ever gets wide adoption. Computers were opt in.

TeMPOraL 2y ago
Until they weren't.
- anonymousab 2y ago
  Yeah, widespread adoption will do that to things.

riiii 2y ago

> Unfortunately nothing opt in ever gets wide adoption Sharing your host's WiFi password with all your contacts should never get a wide adoption. It should never be an option anyway. It shows Microsoft's astonishing ignorance of security.

dijit 2y ago
Well, actually Apple is doing something similar, and it's opt-in. If you have a contact, they are in their settings, and they're nearby and they can see your wifi network, a prompt will appear on your phone which asks if you would like to share wifi credentials with them. There's some foolery going on to stop it popping up if you're using the device normally, like you have to be in settings or the home screen - or recently unlock your phone or something... But it's very explicitly: opt-in.
- verandaguy 2y ago
  It's opt in for the person with the option to share network credentials. It's not opt-in for the owner of the network, who should really have a say in the matter. I do use this feature from time to time, but it's typically on networks where either I'm the owner, or the owner's given me permission to share the creds. This also opens up an attack surface (which I got to experience firsthand on a burner device at DEF CON 31), where someone spoofs an Apple device requesting network creds. The attack itself involves spamming share requests and catching you off guard, causing you to hit OK, or you just hit OK out of notification fatigue.
  - nlawalker 2y ago
    > It's not opt-in for the owner of the network, who should really have a say in the matter. Why? It’s literally just a shortcut for asking for the password from someone who already has it and then having it read it out loud or texted. If the owner of the network doesn’t want that happening they need to explain that in either case.
    - verandaguy 2y ago
      It’s a shortcut that deprives the network owner of agency. As the person running the network, should you not have some degree of control over who gets to join your network, be it fully open, fully closed, or anywhere in between?
      - nlawalker 2y ago
        > It’s a shortcut that deprives the network owner of agency. It doesn’t, they have exactly as much agency as they would if the shortcut didn’t exist. > As the person running the network, should you not have some degree of control over who gets to join your network, be it fully open, fully closed, or anywhere in between? If you want more control than a shareable password provides, it’s on you to implement something other than a shareable password. A feature that merely helps people share passwords doesn’t change that.
      - 2y ago

nkrisc 2y ago

> Unfortunately nothing opt in ever gets wide adoption. Too fucking bad for them. This opt-out bullshit for everything like this, marketing emails, etc. is bullshit. I’m sick of it.

acka 2y ago
Don't forget the website cookie popup tomfoolery, where you must study each and every popup carefully lest you click the wrong button to opt out.
- lifestyleguru 2y ago
  ...and they NEVER remember your preferences, well except your shopping preferences which will stick to you across networks and devices.