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This kinda reminds me of a feature Windows (Phone) used to have, where it would share your Wi-Fi password with the device's contacts automatically. To opt-out y
by whyoh 2y ago
This kinda reminds me of a feature Windows (Phone) used to have, where it would share your Wi-Fi password with the device's contacts automatically. To opt-out you had to add _optout to the SSID name. https://www.theregister.com/2015/06/30/windows_10_wi_fi_sense/ https://www.theregister.com/2015/06/30/windows_10_wi_fi_sens...
It looks like this feature was removed eventually, but it's just one of those tasteless things that MS does every once in a while.
- matheusmoreira 2y ago> To opt-out you had to add _optout to the SSID name. Or banish machines running Microsoft software from the network.
- ubermonkey 2y agoSure, Jan.
- karaterobot 2y agoFrom that article: > (So if you want to opt out of Google Maps and Wi-Fi Sense at the same time, you must change your SSID of, say, myhouse to myhouse_optout_nomap. Technology is great.) I knew about the Google Maps thing, I didn't know about this. That kind of stuff is so presumptuous and user hostile it's outrageous.
- kazinator 2y agoWould it be better to have an op-out database, where you have to log in with a Google account, and prove that you own the device somehow using geolocation? The system has to be resistant against bad actors taking someone else off the map who chooses to opt in. It would be better if the syntax were simpler, like changing myhouse to __myhouse (double underscore == private identifier). By setting SSID a certain way, you simultaneously show your intent to opt out and prove that you're the operator.
- voltaireodactyl 2y agoThis assumes such a database is necessary in this first place, which in my mind would require serious justification to prove, given that it creates a situation where the customer’s security is degraded by default.
- kelnos 2y agoI do wonder how much it actually does improve location accuracy on phones. Certainly if you have no GPS signal at all it'll give you something rather than nothing, but if you do have GPS, does it really improve things?
- zinekeller 2y agoIf you are in an urban area (especially at the time it was introduced), it will really improve things, mainly because GPS* signal reflections in urban areas disrupt proper positioning. It won't put you into another continent but it tends to be around two magnitudes worse, especially when you're moving (from ~1 meter to ~100 meters). The fact that multi-band GPS is now common does reduce this problem, but this is still helpful in dense areas with high skyscrapers that can still attenuate both bands. * I'm using GPS here as shorthand for all GNSS systems (including GLONASS and Galileo).
- plorg 2y agoAt my workplace it used to identify my location as various places within a 300 mile radius of my actual location correlating (at best) to places where our ISP had a footprint, but sometimes even places that it didn't. In any case I had never connected to to our WiFi with my phone, so it would have to be correlating the IPs of users who had. I eventually found a place where you could submit location services corrections to Google and now it gets within 100 feet of the building. We used to joke about making a digital sign above our office door saying "Welcome to ___" which would use the location returned by the Google AGPS service.
- vladvasiliu 2y ago
- crimsonnoodle58 2y agoYep. My WiFi has had _optout_nomap ever since it was introduced. People always ask me why and I've never seen another SSID with it included.
- maeil 2y agoCome over to my place and we can possibly be the first people ever to bond over their home wifi SSIDs ;)
- lostlogin 2y agoMy Unifi setup has whitelisted devices. Everything else is completely crippled on the WiFi. I’m happy for how easy it is to do this.
- SpaceNugget 2y agoGoogle maps doesn't need to be able to connect to your wifi in order to use it for location detection. i.e. You still need to add _nomap to the ssid.
- wil421 2y agoGoogle maps cars go around scanning WiFi SSIDs so they can map them to geolocations.
- CalRobert 2y agoI really miss the days when people put time and thought in to their SSIDs instead of using the defaults
- coremoff 2y agoThere's a certain comfort, and security, from the anonymity afforded by randomly generated SSIDs.
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- grodriguez100 2y agoBe thankful that this actually works. It wouldn’t if both Microsoft and Google checked for the magic token at the end of the SSID string :-/
- RealStickman_ 2y agoI learned about this recently when I looked at using beacondb[1] as network geolocation provider. [1] https://beacondb.net/privacy/ https://beacondb.net/privacy/
- Red_Leaves_Flyy 2y agoOpting out via ssid is pull the table cloth off at a wedding level absurd. Effectively this design is we saying we respect you so little that you might be able deactivate this feature if tattoo your choice on your face but we might might ignore that too because fuck you for disagreeing. Iirc the same optout method is used opting out of WiFi scanning. Blanket behavior like this should always be opt in with explicit informed and uncoerced consent. A laughable proposition in this corporate world but a worthy aim nonetheless.
- somat 2y agoYou are not wrong and I agree with you that this sort of bullshit is laughably unacceptable. Unfortunately nothing opt in ever gets wide adoption. So I expect to keep seeing these sort of infernal acts as people get bright but misguided ideas that require broad adoption to work. for example googles wifi cataloging does not work at all if to get cataloged you have to put "_cataloged" in your ssid.
- Zambyte 2y ago> Unfortunately nothing opt in ever gets wide adoption. Computers were opt in.
- TeMPOraL 2y agoUntil they weren't.
- anonymousab 2y agoYeah, widespread adoption will do that to things.
- riiii 2y ago> Unfortunately nothing opt in ever gets wide adoption Sharing your host's WiFi password with all your contacts should never get a wide adoption. It should never be an option anyway. It shows Microsoft's astonishing ignorance of security.
- wordofx 2y agoThis was a good feature. Thankfully it still exists in iOS. Just requires approval.
- renewiltord 2y agoThe iOS implementation of this feature is perfect.
- setopt 2y agoIt’s cool but it’s not perfect. I usually try to use this feature when traveling: either I or my wife will add the new Wi-Fi and share with the other. It works roughly 3/4 times, but the remaining 1/4 is infuriating because there’s no button to manually start the sharing and no info about why it doesn’t work. I would prefer a reliable button to AirDrop the Wi-Fi credentials instead of unreliable magic.
- thrawa 2y agoI don't know if it was Android-native or MiUI, but my old phone could share wi-fi credentials by showing it as a QR code. I consider that implementation to be even better since it can be triggered manually
- boffinAudio 2y agoNo it isn't, it leaks data to Apple whether you opt in or not.
- withinboredom 2y agoIt isn't perfect if you are the wifi owner and people who have credentials then give it away to people you'd rather not give credentials.
- quesera 2y agoIt's still an improvement though. In the iOS way, your guest can share the creds privately to another person. In the normal way, your guest can share the creds verbally to another person, which might be overheard by other unintended listeners. I guess the ideal would be to allow the network owner (which would be determined by what method?) to share to guests with a flag set for no further sharing (and no viewing of credentials).
- lokar 2y agoTasteless describes pretty much every about Microsoft
- Iridescent_ 2y agoThis just reminds me of my theory of Microsoft's checklist-driven development: Some PM writes down some single-sentence description of a feature (e.g. "Share Wi-Fi passwords with contacts") and the developers just read the list and find the single least-effort way of implementing it. Once done, they can tick the item off the list and go home having done their job, although often in the most excruciatingly stupid way by damaging their users' experience. I do not see how else could M$ so often add features in a way that actively make their products worse to use.
- yason 2y agoBecause this is Microsoft we shall apply Gates' razor and must thus conclude that "never attribute to stupidity that which is adequately explained by malice".
- lifestyleguru 2y ago> Gates' razor and must thus conclude that "never attribute to stupidity that which is adequately explained by malice I like this term, hopefully it enters dictionary. Stupidity doesn't buy yachts, vile malice does.
- donatj 2y agoI believe you mean Hanlon's Razor?
- gryfft 2y agoThey've inverted it ironically to attribute malice to Microsoft. (Not undeservedly.)
- munch117 2y agoPlease refrain from content-free meming on HN.
- rrr_oh_man 2y agoCan you elaborate why you would see Gates as a malicious actor?
- throwaway290 2y agoApple does it right: it shares only if you press the button and only with your own devices (the share prompt will show up if your other device is currently facing Wi-Fi password prompt and your current device knows the password)
- ubermonkey 2y agoHoly crap that's amazingly bad!
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]