3 ms·

I mention this only to add to your informative post. Humans almost drove whales extinct because their rendered fat produced less fat for lamp fuel, and they are

I mention this only to add to your informative post. Humans almost drove whales extinct because their rendered fat produced less fat for lamp fuel, and they are substantially pelagic. We almost drove bison extinct in NA in a matter of decades. We are driving massive numbers of species across trophic levels extinct, right now https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2023/dec/29/us-animals-birds-extinct-this-year https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2023/dec/29/us-anima... It isn't a choice, climate change related habitat changes probably contributed - which is also extremely pertinent today - but when you find the extinct species bones in human habitats it's a fair sign we were a contributing and possibly decisive cause.

jccooper 2y ago
Whales and bison were subject to very modern techniques. While sailing whalers did stress whale populations, it was the steam launch and exploding harpoon that really did the whales in. Bison were destroyed with rifles, which are new in themselves, but the mass-slaughter behavior was enabled by rail transport. Plus they were plenty stressed by competition with cattle, bred for rail transport, and enclosure of the prairie by barbed wire. Earlier lithic-technology subsistence whale and bison hunting doesn't seem to have been a big problem for either. I won't say that early human hunting didn't contribute to or cause mega-fauna extinctions (in fact, it seems quite likely) but that's not highly analogous to these more recent events.
- throwaway5752 2y ago
  I agree, but while the technology wasn't the same, the timeframes were not comparable, either. As long the rate in of the selection pressure exceeds the ability of the population to adapt, it is just a question of time.
  - LeFantome 2y ago
    It sounds like you are agreeing. Hunting pressure on already distressed species ( due to climate change ) over long periods of time seems like a likely explanation. The complaint is not that humans were not a factor but rather that we were not the only one.

jccooper 2y ago

Whales and bison were subject to very modern techniques. While sailing whalers did stress whale populations, it was the steam launch and exploding harpoon that really did the whales in. Bison were destroyed with rifles, which are new in themselves, but the mass-slaughter behavior was enabled by rail transport. Plus they were plenty stressed by competition with cattle, bred for rail transport, and enclosure of the prairie by barbed wire. Earlier lithic-technology subsistence whale and bison hunting doesn't seem to have been a big problem for either. I won't say that early human hunting didn't contribute to or cause mega-fauna extinctions (in fact, it seems quite likely) but that's not highly analogous to these more recent events.

throwaway5752 2y ago
I agree, but while the technology wasn't the same, the timeframes were not comparable, either. As long the rate in of the selection pressure exceeds the ability of the population to adapt, it is just a question of time.
- LeFantome 2y ago
  It sounds like you are agreeing. Hunting pressure on already distressed species ( due to climate change ) over long periods of time seems like a likely explanation. The complaint is not that humans were not a factor but rather that we were not the only one.