4 ms·

Decriminalizing Homosexuality: A Global Overview Since the 18th Century (2022)

25 points by therabbithole 2y ago

deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
nomilk 2y ago
This map gives a tl;dr of which countries still criminalise being gay. Somber reading. In many countries penalties include imprisonment and death. https://www.humandignitytrust.org/lgbt-the-law/map-of-criminalisation/ https://www.humandignitytrust.org/lgbt-the-law/map-of-crimin...
- JumpCrisscross 2y ago
  What is the source of the criminalisation of homosexuality? The original sin that started the wave? Is it tied in any way to backlash to the Romans? It seems to randomly pop up in Christian Rome and then percolate across the Abrahamic faiths from there [1]. [1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criminalization_of_homosexuality#History https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criminalization_of_homosexua...
  - gwervc 2y ago
    Given that most of the listed countries are hot, a more reasonable take is climate change.
    - JumpCrisscross 2y ago
      > Given that most of the listed countries are hot, a more reasonable take is climate change If you’re looking at the modern map, it’s largely one of Islam.
  - NeoTar 2y ago
    It must be hard to do research on this since I can imagine that prosecutions were possible even if homosexuality were not actually illegal (one can find other crimes to prosecute such as 'corrupting the youth') and the conflation between various sexual acts in law (e.g. consentual versus non-consentual sexual activity). I do appreciate the idea that it may have been prompted by anti-homosexual moral panics though. That resonates.
    - JumpCrisscross 2y ago
      > it may have been prompted by anti-homosexual moral panics I suppose I’m curious about how those panics arose. It seems to have gone from generally accepted to generally feared in an ambiguous way.
  - AnimalMuppet 2y ago
    No, it's in the Old Testament as well.
    - JumpCrisscross 2y ago
      > it's in the Old Testament as well How old are the relevant lines in Leviticus 18 and 20? From what I can tell, homosexuality wasn’t referenced in the first versions from 800 BCE [1]. [1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paleo-Hebrew_Leviticus_Scroll https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paleo-Hebrew_Leviticus_Scrol...
      - AnimalMuppet 2y ago
        Not sure how you get that from the link. Am I missing something?
p0w3n3d 2y ago
It's funny because criminalisation in Poland is stated as 1815 but Poland was not existing at that time. It's had been divided by three countries (Russia, Germany and Austria-Hungary) three times, last done on 1795 which made Poland inexistent for next 123 years. I wonder which territory was taken into account because there were three different law systems on the three partitions.
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
- NeoTar 2y ago
  Possibly the Free City of Cracow (Kraków) - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_City_of_Cracow https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_City_of_Cracow - which was arguably the only 'Polish' state that existed at the time, surviving until 1848? Although I suspect it may be coming from the Wikipedia article, or its source (which is in Polish so I can't verify exactly what it says) - reproduced below. > The Napoleonic Code, introduced in the Duchy of Warsaw in 1808, was silent on homosexuality. After 1815, all three countries that partitioned Poland explicitly declared homosexual acts illegal. In Congress Poland homosexuality was criminalised in 1818, in Prussia in 1871 and in Austria in 1852. Russia's new code of law (called Kodeks Kar Głównych i Poprawczych/Уложение о наказаниях уголовных и исправительных 1845 года) in 1845 penalized homosexuality with forced resettlement to Siberia.
culi 2y ago
Kind of an absurd metric. At one point, no countries criminalized homosexuality. A nation state in general is a European concept. The earliest accepted date for the first nation state is 1648, but even then it didn't really turn into a global concept until after WW1 or even WW2. Most countries that criminalized homosexuality did so while under colonial rule It just seems silly to start the timeline to when France, a country that criminalized homosexuality in its colonies, decriminalized it
- JumpCrisscross 2y ago
  > At one point, no countries criminalized homosexuality. A nation state in general is a European concept Your confusion arises from mixing up the terms country and nation state. Nation states are modern [1]. States, what you’re calling countries, are as old as history. States criminalised homosexuality well before there were nation states [2]. (The point at which no country criminalised homosexuality appears to be in the neighbourhood of the first centuries AD.) [1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nation_state https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nation_state [2] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criminalization_of_homosexuality#History https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criminalization_of_homosexua...
onetokeoverthe 2y ago
[dead]

25 points by therabbithole 2y ago

deleted 2y ago

[deleted]

This map gives a tl;dr of which countries still criminalise being gay. Somber reading. In many countries penalties include imprisonment and death. https://www.humandignitytrust.org/lgbt-the-law/map-of-criminalisation/ https://www.humandignitytrust.org/lgbt-the-law/map-of-crimin...

JumpCrisscross 2y ago
What is the source of the criminalisation of homosexuality? The original sin that started the wave? Is it tied in any way to backlash to the Romans? It seems to randomly pop up in Christian Rome and then percolate across the Abrahamic faiths from there [1]. [1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criminalization_of_homosexuality#History https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criminalization_of_homosexua...
- gwervc 2y ago
  Given that most of the listed countries are hot, a more reasonable take is climate change.
  - JumpCrisscross 2y ago
    > Given that most of the listed countries are hot, a more reasonable take is climate change If you’re looking at the modern map, it’s largely one of Islam.
- NeoTar 2y ago
  It must be hard to do research on this since I can imagine that prosecutions were possible even if homosexuality were not actually illegal (one can find other crimes to prosecute such as 'corrupting the youth') and the conflation between various sexual acts in law (e.g. consentual versus non-consentual sexual activity). I do appreciate the idea that it may have been prompted by anti-homosexual moral panics though. That resonates.
  - JumpCrisscross 2y ago
    > it may have been prompted by anti-homosexual moral panics I suppose I’m curious about how those panics arose. It seems to have gone from generally accepted to generally feared in an ambiguous way.
- AnimalMuppet 2y ago
  No, it's in the Old Testament as well.
  - JumpCrisscross 2y ago
    > it's in the Old Testament as well How old are the relevant lines in Leviticus 18 and 20? From what I can tell, homosexuality wasn’t referenced in the first versions from 800 BCE [1]. [1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paleo-Hebrew_Leviticus_Scroll https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paleo-Hebrew_Leviticus_Scrol...
    - AnimalMuppet 2y ago
      Not sure how you get that from the link. Am I missing something?

p0w3n3d 2y ago

It's funny because criminalisation in Poland is stated as 1815 but Poland was not existing at that time. It's had been divided by three countries (Russia, Germany and Austria-Hungary) three times, last done on 1795 which made Poland inexistent for next 123 years. I wonder which territory was taken into account because there were three different law systems on the three partitions.

deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
NeoTar 2y ago
Possibly the Free City of Cracow (Kraków) - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_City_of_Cracow https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_City_of_Cracow - which was arguably the only 'Polish' state that existed at the time, surviving until 1848? Although I suspect it may be coming from the Wikipedia article, or its source (which is in Polish so I can't verify exactly what it says) - reproduced below. > The Napoleonic Code, introduced in the Duchy of Warsaw in 1808, was silent on homosexuality. After 1815, all three countries that partitioned Poland explicitly declared homosexual acts illegal. In Congress Poland homosexuality was criminalised in 1818, in Prussia in 1871 and in Austria in 1852. Russia's new code of law (called Kodeks Kar Głównych i Poprawczych/Уложение о наказаниях уголовных и исправительных 1845 года) in 1845 penalized homosexuality with forced resettlement to Siberia.

culi 2y ago

Kind of an absurd metric. At one point, no countries criminalized homosexuality. A nation state in general is a European concept. The earliest accepted date for the first nation state is 1648, but even then it didn't really turn into a global concept until after WW1 or even WW2. Most countries that criminalized homosexuality did so while under colonial rule It just seems silly to start the timeline to when France, a country that criminalized homosexuality in its colonies, decriminalized it

JumpCrisscross 2y ago
> At one point, no countries criminalized homosexuality. A nation state in general is a European concept Your confusion arises from mixing up the terms country and nation state. Nation states are modern [1]. States, what you’re calling countries, are as old as history. States criminalised homosexuality well before there were nation states [2]. (The point at which no country criminalised homosexuality appears to be in the neighbourhood of the first centuries AD.) [1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nation_state https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nation_state [2] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criminalization_of_homosexuality#History https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criminalization_of_homosexua...

onetokeoverthe 2y ago

[dead]