3 ms·

Probably like 2/3 of the people I know that I would consider to be racist or hold racist beliefs would call themselves racist, or at least say that they have so

Probably like 2/3 of the people I know that I would consider to be racist or hold racist beliefs would call themselves racist, or at least say that they have some racist beliefs. Probably half the other 3rd are predominantly those that are racist specifically toward white people. When you create a space where people can be sincere, you would be surprised how self-aware they can be. At least I am.

xenadu02 2y ago
I take that as part of the point they were making: white supremecists, for example, claim white people are superior. Their actions are logical in some sense if you accept their premises that a) race is a useful classification akin to species and b) there is some inherent difference between races. To be clear personally I think the science has definitively debunked not only supremacy of any race but even race as a concept which is really all about skin tone and facial features... many people's DNA doesn't even match their supposed "race" because the categorization of race is akin to color of coat in dogs: a very superficial trait useful as a visual descriptor but not useful for segmenting individuals into groups. Not to mention the whole story of homosapiens is freeing us from biological evolution. The idea that someone's biology inherently limits their worth or makes them not an equal member of humanity is in some sense the most perverse denial of our very nature.
- somenameforme 2y ago
  I think when trying to debate something, the idea should be to try to convince the other person. That sounds stupidly obvious, but it's really not. Imagine you're debating somebody over something and resorted to an argument over the exact meaning of terms that, to people who might not share your worldview, would be completely obvious. It's unlikely you'd really be persuading them of anything. I think the more salient point is that even if you assume clear racial distinctions, and even substantial racial differences, that still does not justify any sort of racial ideology. The movie Gattaca works as an oddly perfect metaphor for racial ideologies and its problems. Gattaca was about genetics, but it's not a coincidence that it fits perfectly with race, as it's literally the exact same problem. Just because somebody is a part of a group with some sort of a negative correlation, does not mean that person will inherently let that trait dominate them. Incidentally the reverse is also true - just because somebody may e.g. have a high IQ does not mean they will inherently be knowledgeable or wise. It's okay to consider group tendencies, but at the end of the day individuals are able to rise far above or fall far below their "expectation", and so it's important to judge each person not by the makeup of their genetics, but by the content of their character.
- Izkata 2y ago
  Supremacy sure, but not its existence, more like the opposite: Ancestry DNA tests wouldn't work if there was no basis for it.
- s1artibartfast 2y ago
  Race as a cultural and social construct absolutely exist, and one can perform scientific analysis using this as a basis. Segmenting individuals into groups on the basis of race shows a large number of very real differences with irrefutable statistical significance. I don't personally think that these are due to Intrinsic genetic properties, but that doesn't mean that there are no real and scientifically verifiable differences that break along racial lines. It's kind of like comparing Californians to Nevadans. You don't have to think that there is a non-conditional difference in the groups to explore the apparent or manifested differences in a scientifically rigorous way. Dividing the groups by the border on a map may be arbitrary from some perspectives, but completely relevant from other perspectives

xenadu02 2y ago

I take that as part of the point they were making: white supremecists, for example, claim white people are superior. Their actions are logical in some sense if you accept their premises that a) race is a useful classification akin to species and b) there is some inherent difference between races. To be clear personally I think the science has definitively debunked not only supremacy of any race but even race as a concept which is really all about skin tone and facial features... many people's DNA doesn't even match their supposed "race" because the categorization of race is akin to color of coat in dogs: a very superficial trait useful as a visual descriptor but not useful for segmenting individuals into groups. Not to mention the whole story of homosapiens is freeing us from biological evolution. The idea that someone's biology inherently limits their worth or makes them not an equal member of humanity is in some sense the most perverse denial of our very nature.

somenameforme 2y ago
I think when trying to debate something, the idea should be to try to convince the other person. That sounds stupidly obvious, but it's really not. Imagine you're debating somebody over something and resorted to an argument over the exact meaning of terms that, to people who might not share your worldview, would be completely obvious. It's unlikely you'd really be persuading them of anything. I think the more salient point is that even if you assume clear racial distinctions, and even substantial racial differences, that still does not justify any sort of racial ideology. The movie Gattaca works as an oddly perfect metaphor for racial ideologies and its problems. Gattaca was about genetics, but it's not a coincidence that it fits perfectly with race, as it's literally the exact same problem. Just because somebody is a part of a group with some sort of a negative correlation, does not mean that person will inherently let that trait dominate them. Incidentally the reverse is also true - just because somebody may e.g. have a high IQ does not mean they will inherently be knowledgeable or wise. It's okay to consider group tendencies, but at the end of the day individuals are able to rise far above or fall far below their "expectation", and so it's important to judge each person not by the makeup of their genetics, but by the content of their character.
Izkata 2y ago
Supremacy sure, but not its existence, more like the opposite: Ancestry DNA tests wouldn't work if there was no basis for it.
s1artibartfast 2y ago
Race as a cultural and social construct absolutely exist, and one can perform scientific analysis using this as a basis. Segmenting individuals into groups on the basis of race shows a large number of very real differences with irrefutable statistical significance. I don't personally think that these are due to Intrinsic genetic properties, but that doesn't mean that there are no real and scientifically verifiable differences that break along racial lines. It's kind of like comparing Californians to Nevadans. You don't have to think that there is a non-conditional difference in the groups to explore the apparent or manifested differences in a scientifically rigorous way. Dividing the groups by the border on a map may be arbitrary from some perspectives, but completely relevant from other perspectives