4 ms·

> Why aren't we seeing more and more L3 chargers at gas stations? It's a good question. I don't know for certain, but my hypothesis would be because of what yo

> Why aren't we seeing more and more L3 chargers at gas stations? It's a good question. I don't know for certain, but my hypothesis would be because of what you and the OP said: > Destination charging is a thing. Drive somewhere, plug in, do what you came to do, and drive back with enough charge to get home. > if you have a garage or driveway then your electric car ownership will be a dream where you truly stop thinking about range No one goes to a gas station to hang out, you know? Instead you plug in at work, or the mall, or the restaurant, or just don't bother until you get home. It doesn't make sense to spend your 20+ minute charge time at a gas station.

toomuchtodo 2y ago
Tesla colocated Superchargers at grocery stores. You have to eat, right? First world problem is the car is done charging before I'm done shopping! To your point, put chargers at existing locations humans dwell at, the only other use case is highway travel chargers. There are ~110k gas stations left in the US, and I'll argue many of those will not be needed going forward as mobility electrifies [1] [2] [3]. [1] https://www.axios.com/2022/07/15/gas-stations-prices-closing https://www.axios.com/2022/07/15/gas-stations-prices-closing [2] https://enpowered.com/the-death-of-gas-stations-will-be-far-sooner-than-you-think/ https://enpowered.com/the-death-of-gas-stations-will-be-far-... [3] https://www.urbanismnext.org/resources/americas-gas-stations-are-running-out-of-time https://www.urbanismnext.org/resources/americas-gas-stations...
- JshWright 2y ago
  There are a bunch of reasons why it wouldn't be worth implementing, but it would be cool if you could tell it how long you thought you would be in the store and it could adjust the charging time to be a bit gentler on the battery. I'm sure it wouldn't get used much (unless the UI was very front and center, and maybe recommended a time based on your previous stops at that charger), and Tesla would be somewhat disincentivized to build it anyway as their goal is to get as many unique cars through the charger as possible, but it would still be neat...
  - toomuchtodo 2y ago
    I'm unsure if there is much difference between charging at 50kw vs 150-200kw wrt long term battery longevity (I have primarily supercharged my 100D Model S for ~140k miles, and only experience ~7% pack degradation), although I do pick the V2/150kw chargers to let folks potentially under a time crunch use the V2/250kw chargers (when the station has both due to legacy posts that were expanded, which is common in the area I currently frequent). Also, better to turn the stalls over faster considering amortized capex costs (charging fast = less stalls needed). We're somewhat spoiled that aggressive volumes of fast DC charging is immaterial on battery pack health in well engineered battery packs, as well as the rate of improvement in battery technology. Don't worry too much about it, enjoy a better UX and simply charge when convenient. Batteries are only going to keep getting better. https://cleantechnica.com/2024/07/14/another-tesla-with-over-400000-miles-on-one-battery/ https://cleantechnica.com/2024/07/14/another-tesla-with-over... ("Another Tesla With Over 400,000 Miles On One Battery")
  - bryanlarsen 2y ago
    There are enough stories of taxi/uber drivers who basically only charge at superchargers getting 200,000+ miles out of their Tesla battery that slowing down charge speed to optimize battery life is a minor optimization at best. What would be really nice is a better way of sharing a charger after you're done charging. My experience is that a Tesla supercharger is often too fast. On a road trip charging stops usually coincide with meals, but a charge takes less time than a nice meal does. The charge is done and idle fees start accumulating when you're halfway through the meal. It's rude to others waiting for the charger to leave it there plugged in. It'd be awesome if there was a way to have two plugs per charger, and a big green light to indicate that the first car is done charging so that anybody pulling into the second stall would get a full speed charge.
    - stbenjam 2y ago
      That's essentially what they already do. The power feed is shared between neighboring chargers which is why you should leave a space between if there's empty stalls. e.g. a 250kW charger becomes 125 when two cars are parked next to each other. It only takes a minute to move your car, I don't really find it that big of a deal.
mastax 2y ago
I don’t have an electric car but I watched a video of an owner on YouTube doing a roadtrip and he complained when the chargers were located at places more different from gas stations. Convenience stores are… convenient. Walmarts are almost as good. Hotel parking lots offer basically no amenities to non-guests though.
- coldpie 2y ago
  Indeed. It'll be interesting to watch the charging ecosystem evolve. I have no idea where we'll end up. Turn gas stations into... little EV charging stations with mini-attractions? Dunno!
- m463 2y ago
  > he complained when the chargers were located at places more different from gas stations. I'm not sure I understand, was he complaining when they were in a parking lot, but off a road? Personally, I see gas stations as convenient to the road, but you are also there for a short time. If you are charging for a non-trivial amount of time, getting out and doing something else is very nice. Charging while grocery shopping is something I do frequently.
spiffytech 2y ago
In my area (a major metro area) there are a bunch of chargers in absolute terms, but very rarely within walking distance of any of my usual destinations. PlugShare shows 18 total charging stations within a 10 minute drive of my home (only one DCFS). There are none near my grocery store, gym, doctor's office, etc. And I WFH. If I wasn't able to install a charger at my home, I would be going out of my way for DCFS a couple of times a week and making up ways to kill time. I hope it'll be different someday, but today is not that day. Or, as the quote goes, "the future has arrived, it's just not evenly distributed yet".

toomuchtodo 2y ago

Tesla colocated Superchargers at grocery stores. You have to eat, right? First world problem is the car is done charging before I'm done shopping! To your point, put chargers at existing locations humans dwell at, the only other use case is highway travel chargers. There are ~110k gas stations left in the US, and I'll argue many of those will not be needed going forward as mobility electrifies [1] [2] [3]. [1] https://www.axios.com/2022/07/15/gas-stations-prices-closing https://www.axios.com/2022/07/15/gas-stations-prices-closing [2] https://enpowered.com/the-death-of-gas-stations-will-be-far-sooner-than-you-think/ https://enpowered.com/the-death-of-gas-stations-will-be-far-... [3] https://www.urbanismnext.org/resources/americas-gas-stations-are-running-out-of-time https://www.urbanismnext.org/resources/americas-gas-stations...

JshWright 2y ago
There are a bunch of reasons why it wouldn't be worth implementing, but it would be cool if you could tell it how long you thought you would be in the store and it could adjust the charging time to be a bit gentler on the battery. I'm sure it wouldn't get used much (unless the UI was very front and center, and maybe recommended a time based on your previous stops at that charger), and Tesla would be somewhat disincentivized to build it anyway as their goal is to get as many unique cars through the charger as possible, but it would still be neat...
- toomuchtodo 2y ago
  I'm unsure if there is much difference between charging at 50kw vs 150-200kw wrt long term battery longevity (I have primarily supercharged my 100D Model S for ~140k miles, and only experience ~7% pack degradation), although I do pick the V2/150kw chargers to let folks potentially under a time crunch use the V2/250kw chargers (when the station has both due to legacy posts that were expanded, which is common in the area I currently frequent). Also, better to turn the stalls over faster considering amortized capex costs (charging fast = less stalls needed). We're somewhat spoiled that aggressive volumes of fast DC charging is immaterial on battery pack health in well engineered battery packs, as well as the rate of improvement in battery technology. Don't worry too much about it, enjoy a better UX and simply charge when convenient. Batteries are only going to keep getting better. https://cleantechnica.com/2024/07/14/another-tesla-with-over-400000-miles-on-one-battery/ https://cleantechnica.com/2024/07/14/another-tesla-with-over... ("Another Tesla With Over 400,000 Miles On One Battery")
- bryanlarsen 2y ago
  There are enough stories of taxi/uber drivers who basically only charge at superchargers getting 200,000+ miles out of their Tesla battery that slowing down charge speed to optimize battery life is a minor optimization at best. What would be really nice is a better way of sharing a charger after you're done charging. My experience is that a Tesla supercharger is often too fast. On a road trip charging stops usually coincide with meals, but a charge takes less time than a nice meal does. The charge is done and idle fees start accumulating when you're halfway through the meal. It's rude to others waiting for the charger to leave it there plugged in. It'd be awesome if there was a way to have two plugs per charger, and a big green light to indicate that the first car is done charging so that anybody pulling into the second stall would get a full speed charge.
  - stbenjam 2y ago
    That's essentially what they already do. The power feed is shared between neighboring chargers which is why you should leave a space between if there's empty stalls. e.g. a 250kW charger becomes 125 when two cars are parked next to each other. It only takes a minute to move your car, I don't really find it that big of a deal.

mastax 2y ago

I don’t have an electric car but I watched a video of an owner on YouTube doing a roadtrip and he complained when the chargers were located at places more different from gas stations. Convenience stores are… convenient. Walmarts are almost as good. Hotel parking lots offer basically no amenities to non-guests though.

coldpie 2y ago
Indeed. It'll be interesting to watch the charging ecosystem evolve. I have no idea where we'll end up. Turn gas stations into... little EV charging stations with mini-attractions? Dunno!
m463 2y ago
> he complained when the chargers were located at places more different from gas stations. I'm not sure I understand, was he complaining when they were in a parking lot, but off a road? Personally, I see gas stations as convenient to the road, but you are also there for a short time. If you are charging for a non-trivial amount of time, getting out and doing something else is very nice. Charging while grocery shopping is something I do frequently.

spiffytech 2y ago

In my area (a major metro area) there are a bunch of chargers in absolute terms, but very rarely within walking distance of any of my usual destinations. PlugShare shows 18 total charging stations within a 10 minute drive of my home (only one DCFS). There are none near my grocery store, gym, doctor's office, etc. And I WFH. If I wasn't able to install a charger at my home, I would be going out of my way for DCFS a couple of times a week and making up ways to kill time. I hope it'll be different someday, but today is not that day. Or, as the quote goes, "the future has arrived, it's just not evenly distributed yet".