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My personal take on this subject is that Rust turns experts back into beginners and some devs react with hatred because of the fear this induces. For me it was

My personal take on this subject is that Rust turns experts back into beginners and some devs react with hatred because of the fear this induces. For me it was the opposite. I was getting bored with my industry and thinking of a move to something else like management. Rust came along 6 yeas ago (for me) and threw me a lifeline. I love getting good at something that is hard, it’s just very satisfying. I do get why some people can’t stand the language. It is ugly to look at with its genetics and lifetime annotations and when a project is so large that it begins to lag rust-analyser then my joy turns to rage too.

DEADMINCEDOS 2y ago
> My personal take on this subject is that Rust turns experts back into beginners and some devs react with hatred because of the fear this induces. Those people are probably poor devs. Anyone who doesn't have the attitude and mindset to continue learning in something like software development which keeps advancing isn't cut out for that field.
- deleted 2y ago
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- anonymoushn 2y ago
  Maybe it wouldn't be reasonable to say this about people who dislike programming in Malbolge, and maybe there are aspects of Rust that are more like programming in Malbolge and less like the field advancing.
Const-me 2y ago
You could have spend that time learning something which is actually useful and helps finding interesting jobs. For example, GPU programming or SIMD intrinsics. What annoys me about rust is the complexity just for the sake of it, lots of pain for minimal gain compared to alternatives. If you need async/await you'll do better in modern .NET despite the GC, if you need the highest CPU performance you'll do better in C++ despite the unsafety.
- sebstefan 2y ago
  "despite the GC" and "despite the unsafety" is really putting a lot of weight on that "despite" These are massive problems
  - fileeditview 2y ago
    That depends a lot on the domain of the code.. just saying they are massive problems is plain wrong. There is a huge percentage of applications that need not care about GC at all.
    - deleted 2y ago
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  - anonymoushn 2y ago
    I don't think it's so cut and dry. For lots of usecases, using Rust involves writing everything from scratch, because the only libraries available pull in an opinionated async runtime and feel entitled to call the global allocator and various syscalls at times the user cannot control, and these components cannot be swapped out because of fundamental issues that prevent Rust libraries from being composable (unless they go out of their way to adopt a feature that launched late last year?). IME there are relatively few usecases where long stalls due to GC are bad but long stalls due to page faults or open(2) taking a couple seconds to return are fine.
    - sebstefan 2y ago
      You're replying to me as if the comment was in a vacuum It's responding to: > complexity just for the sake of it, > lots of pain for minimal gain > If you need async/await you'll do better in modern .NET despite the GC > if you need the highest CPU performance you'll do better in C++ despite the unsafety To this I respond, GC is such a massive problem (I guess you can fill in "for some categories of problems" but I think it's obvious) that some people need to avoid it. And those people often turn to C++, where the "unsafety" is a very big problem.
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DEADMINCEDOS 2y ago

> My personal take on this subject is that Rust turns experts back into beginners and some devs react with hatred because of the fear this induces. Those people are probably poor devs. Anyone who doesn't have the attitude and mindset to continue learning in something like software development which keeps advancing isn't cut out for that field.

deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
anonymoushn 2y ago
Maybe it wouldn't be reasonable to say this about people who dislike programming in Malbolge, and maybe there are aspects of Rust that are more like programming in Malbolge and less like the field advancing.

Const-me 2y ago

You could have spend that time learning something which is actually useful and helps finding interesting jobs. For example, GPU programming or SIMD intrinsics. What annoys me about rust is the complexity just for the sake of it, lots of pain for minimal gain compared to alternatives. If you need async/await you'll do better in modern .NET despite the GC, if you need the highest CPU performance you'll do better in C++ despite the unsafety.

sebstefan 2y ago
"despite the GC" and "despite the unsafety" is really putting a lot of weight on that "despite" These are massive problems
- fileeditview 2y ago
  That depends a lot on the domain of the code.. just saying they are massive problems is plain wrong. There is a huge percentage of applications that need not care about GC at all.
  - deleted 2y ago
    [deleted]
- anonymoushn 2y ago
  I don't think it's so cut and dry. For lots of usecases, using Rust involves writing everything from scratch, because the only libraries available pull in an opinionated async runtime and feel entitled to call the global allocator and various syscalls at times the user cannot control, and these components cannot be swapped out because of fundamental issues that prevent Rust libraries from being composable (unless they go out of their way to adopt a feature that launched late last year?). IME there are relatively few usecases where long stalls due to GC are bad but long stalls due to page faults or open(2) taking a couple seconds to return are fine.
  - sebstefan 2y ago
    You're replying to me as if the comment was in a vacuum It's responding to: > complexity just for the sake of it, > lots of pain for minimal gain > If you need async/await you'll do better in modern .NET despite the GC > if you need the highest CPU performance you'll do better in C++ despite the unsafety To this I respond, GC is such a massive problem (I guess you can fill in "for some categories of problems" but I think it's obvious) that some people need to avoid it. And those people often turn to C++, where the "unsafety" is a very big problem.

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