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> just looking at this threads, nearly every comment is materialist in nature This meme has taken root substantially in the minds of The Rationalists also. ht

> just looking at this threads, nearly every comment is materialist in nature This meme has taken root substantially in the minds of The Rationalists also. https://old.reddit.com/r/slatestarcodex/comments/1e2ow7e/so_what_cant_be_measured/ https://old.reddit.com/r/slatestarcodex/comments/1e2ow7e/so_... A fun meme to launch would be that the Scott Alexander's, Richard Dawkins, Jordan Peterson's etc of the world should have to take at least some responsibility for the risk their memetic viruses introduce into the system. Edit: I may be thinking of the other materialism, but they are closely related.

s1artibartfast 2y ago
I'm actually a pretty big fan of Scott Alexander and the other rationalists, although I don't always agree with their conclusions. Most rationalist philosophy is underpinned by happiness utilitarianism, which I think is fundamentally flawed. First, I don't think happiness on an individual or Global level is the most important metric to optimize for. I think there are other objectives that can stand on their own merits, and even in contrast to happiness such as virtue, progress, and integrity. Secondly, I don't believe in the fungibility of happiness utils. Utilitarianism assumes and even requires that different forms of Happiness can be made equivalent without loss of information included in their qualia. That said, I still think rationalists are ahead of the pack simply because they are interested in introspection, trying to examine life with open eyes, and trying to increase their individual agency to achieve their goals.
- mistermann 2y ago
  Not much disagreement (and a huge fan of Scott himself), I'm more so thinking they could do so much more with the raw cognitive horsepower in the community. They'd be better without their ideology and methods imho.
  - s1artibartfast 2y ago
    I think the most important community outreach that anyone can be doing these days is encouraging people to think critically and take agency over there lives. With that in mind, I think they are building an important foundation. This enables people to make up their own minds. I have to admit that dialogue with rationalist or rationalist forums help me greatly and coming up with my own ideas, despite them being contrary to theirs. Simply Having forums to talk and think deeply is a rare and valuable service
    - mistermann 2y ago
      > think critically Do you find anything strange about this popular phrase?
      - s1artibartfast 2y ago
        HN is very asynchronous and I dont have a notification plug in, so if you have a thought or opinion, I would rather hear it than speculate.
        mistermann 2y ago
        Well, it is deployed regularly by people with a broad spectrum of "capabilities"...so what could it mean? Would the meaning (as it is used, and perceived) not also be a broad spectrum, that perhaps does not nicely intersect with a rigorous and comprehensive definition (that itself doesn't rely on numerous other complex compound terms, each of which suffers from the same problem, and others), which to my knowledge doesn't exist? Take this for example: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Critical_thinking https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Critical_thinking Could it be something like a unicorn, or a God, or pornography? https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/I_know_it_when_I_see_it https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/I_know_it_when_I_see_it Members of The Rationalist community are (self-)reputed practitioners of the craft...but then you can regularly read threads like this: https://old.reddit.com/r/slatestarcodex/comments/1e2ow7e/so_what_cant_be_measured/ https://old.reddit.com/r/slatestarcodex/comments/1e2ow7e/so_...
        s1artibartfast 2y ago
        Im not sure what you mean by "capabilities". In simple terms, I just think it is just making effort to present the most robust and accurate case you can. This involves questioning your work/thoughts before presenting/embracing them. It involves being able put yourself in a skeptical position to it, and generate your own constructive feedback. In some ways, it reminds me of the HN guidelines "Please respond to the strongest plausible interpretation of what someone says, not a weaker one that's easier to criticize. Assume good faith."

s1artibartfast 2y ago

I'm actually a pretty big fan of Scott Alexander and the other rationalists, although I don't always agree with their conclusions. Most rationalist philosophy is underpinned by happiness utilitarianism, which I think is fundamentally flawed. First, I don't think happiness on an individual or Global level is the most important metric to optimize for. I think there are other objectives that can stand on their own merits, and even in contrast to happiness such as virtue, progress, and integrity. Secondly, I don't believe in the fungibility of happiness utils. Utilitarianism assumes and even requires that different forms of Happiness can be made equivalent without loss of information included in their qualia. That said, I still think rationalists are ahead of the pack simply because they are interested in introspection, trying to examine life with open eyes, and trying to increase their individual agency to achieve their goals.

mistermann 2y ago
Not much disagreement (and a huge fan of Scott himself), I'm more so thinking they could do so much more with the raw cognitive horsepower in the community. They'd be better without their ideology and methods imho.
- s1artibartfast 2y ago
  I think the most important community outreach that anyone can be doing these days is encouraging people to think critically and take agency over there lives. With that in mind, I think they are building an important foundation. This enables people to make up their own minds. I have to admit that dialogue with rationalist or rationalist forums help me greatly and coming up with my own ideas, despite them being contrary to theirs. Simply Having forums to talk and think deeply is a rare and valuable service
  - mistermann 2y ago
    > think critically Do you find anything strange about this popular phrase?
    - s1artibartfast 2y ago
      HN is very asynchronous and I dont have a notification plug in, so if you have a thought or opinion, I would rather hear it than speculate.
      - mistermann 2y ago
        Well, it is deployed regularly by people with a broad spectrum of "capabilities"...so what could it mean? Would the meaning (as it is used, and perceived) not also be a broad spectrum, that perhaps does not nicely intersect with a rigorous and comprehensive definition (that itself doesn't rely on numerous other complex compound terms, each of which suffers from the same problem, and others), which to my knowledge doesn't exist? Take this for example: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Critical_thinking https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Critical_thinking Could it be something like a unicorn, or a God, or pornography? https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/I_know_it_when_I_see_it https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/I_know_it_when_I_see_it Members of The Rationalist community are (self-)reputed practitioners of the craft...but then you can regularly read threads like this: https://old.reddit.com/r/slatestarcodex/comments/1e2ow7e/so_what_cant_be_measured/ https://old.reddit.com/r/slatestarcodex/comments/1e2ow7e/so_...
        s1artibartfast 2y ago
        Im not sure what you mean by "capabilities". In simple terms, I just think it is just making effort to present the most robust and accurate case you can. This involves questioning your work/thoughts before presenting/embracing them. It involves being able put yourself in a skeptical position to it, and generate your own constructive feedback. In some ways, it reminds me of the HN guidelines "Please respond to the strongest plausible interpretation of what someone says, not a weaker one that's easier to criticize. Assume good faith."