4 ms·

Is a deal with any god, even a benevolent one (like a Culture Mind), a deal with the devil?

082349872349872 2y ago
On HN I've seen the reading that Culture humans are pretty much housecats to the Culture Minds. Is that a mainstream reading, or fringe?
- GeoAtreides 2y ago
  Seen it a couple of times on /r/theculture, once or twice on spacebattles as well. The lack of purpose in the Culture, of meaning of life, spawns in some readers all kind of coping mechanisms. Most sane take was that the relationships between the Minds and humans is like the relationship between grown-up children and their elderly parents.
  - bartvk 2y ago
    Thanks so much for pointing out that subreddit. I've read and re-read Banks' novels and now I can read about them every now and then.
- Suppafly 2y ago
  >On HN I've seen the reading that Culture humans are pretty much housecats to the Culture Minds. HN is the only place I've seen that take. It may be present in the books of the series I haven't read yet, but I feel like it was mostly one person's interpretation that gets repeated here.
  - Vecr 2y ago
    No it's not, I agree, except I think they're worse off than housecats. Not that cats have it the best: https://gwern.net/review/cat https://gwern.net/review/cat "Cat Psychology & Domestication: Are We Good Owners?"
- tivert 2y ago
  > On HN I've seen the reading that Culture humans are pretty much housecats to the Culture Minds. Is that a mainstream reading, or fringe? I think it's a pretty mainstream reading. I've seen it a lot, and, IMHO, it'd be pretty hard to interpret those books any other way. IIRC, there's even one other species in that has that view, and chose to use "accelerated copies" of themselves to command their ships instead of AI, to avoid that fate.
- egypturnash 2y ago
  It has been a while since I read any of the books but I feel like this is a thing that is explicitly noted in the text of the books here and there. It's certainly in "A Few Notes On The Culture", a post Banks made to rec.arts.sf.written back in 1994: "Humans and independent drones (the Culture's non-android individual AIs of roughly human-equivalent intelligence) are unnecessary for the running of the starships, and have a status somewhere between passengers, pets and parasites." (taken from a copy found at http://www.vavatch.co.uk/books/banks/cultnote.htm http://www.vavatch.co.uk/books/banks/cultnote.htm)
- vinnyvichy 2y ago
  What's not so mainstream [knowledge] is that housecats are de facto sacred to Iain Banks' millieu (as well as to the otherwise iconoclastic Mohammedans https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam_and_cats https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam_and_cats) Ok, I(M)B himself has compared lesser beings in the Culture to peasants http://strangehorizons.com/non-fiction/articles/a-few-questions-about-the-culture-an-interview-with-iain-banks/ http://strangehorizons.com/non-fiction/articles/a-few-questi...
  - 082349872349872 2y ago
    https://www.burninghou.se/p/the-naming-of-cats-and-an-offering https://www.burninghou.se/p/the-naming-of-cats-and-an-offeri... Lagniappe: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=euIrO9spk2A https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=euIrO9spk2A
    - vinnyvichy 2y ago
      Taisho guardian Kota https://youtu.be/ZMQLWKZjsbc https://youtu.be/ZMQLWKZjsbc https://www.pinterest.com/pin/goblin-cat-finale--377035800061944095/ https://www.pinterest.com/pin/goblin-cat-finale--37703580006... Interview with the novelizer pointing out some of the Chinese elements https://www.bookbang.jp/review/article/734915 https://www.bookbang.jp/review/article/734915
      - 082349872349872 2y ago
        > 何かを禁ずることで力を引き出す。「形・真・理」は、禁じているわけではないですが、条件が揃わなければ力が発揮できない。制約を与えることで、力、強大な力が発揮されるんだ、と捉えています。 That's why I find myself drawn to the algebraic — in hopes of drawing out some unreasonable (monstrous?) effectiveness... > "The syntax is the soul. Study the soul to know the syntax. Evil mind, evil syntax". —not Toranosuke Shimada https://www.theonion.com/kitten-thinks-of-nothing-but-murder-all-day-1819588260 https://www.theonion.com/kitten-thinks-of-nothing-but-murder...
        vinnyvichy 2y ago
        Cats as (Arab/syriac) guest demon/god of algebra? (It's just inconvenient that they are also associated with category theory) Brings to mind the Atiyah (who was Lebanese) quote.

On HN I've seen the reading that Culture humans are pretty much housecats to the Culture Minds. Is that a mainstream reading, or fringe?

GeoAtreides 2y ago
Seen it a couple of times on /r/theculture, once or twice on spacebattles as well. The lack of purpose in the Culture, of meaning of life, spawns in some readers all kind of coping mechanisms. Most sane take was that the relationships between the Minds and humans is like the relationship between grown-up children and their elderly parents.
- bartvk 2y ago
  Thanks so much for pointing out that subreddit. I've read and re-read Banks' novels and now I can read about them every now and then.
Suppafly 2y ago
>On HN I've seen the reading that Culture humans are pretty much housecats to the Culture Minds. HN is the only place I've seen that take. It may be present in the books of the series I haven't read yet, but I feel like it was mostly one person's interpretation that gets repeated here.
- Vecr 2y ago
  No it's not, I agree, except I think they're worse off than housecats. Not that cats have it the best: https://gwern.net/review/cat https://gwern.net/review/cat "Cat Psychology & Domestication: Are We Good Owners?"
tivert 2y ago
> On HN I've seen the reading that Culture humans are pretty much housecats to the Culture Minds. Is that a mainstream reading, or fringe? I think it's a pretty mainstream reading. I've seen it a lot, and, IMHO, it'd be pretty hard to interpret those books any other way. IIRC, there's even one other species in that has that view, and chose to use "accelerated copies" of themselves to command their ships instead of AI, to avoid that fate.
egypturnash 2y ago
It has been a while since I read any of the books but I feel like this is a thing that is explicitly noted in the text of the books here and there. It's certainly in "A Few Notes On The Culture", a post Banks made to rec.arts.sf.written back in 1994: "Humans and independent drones (the Culture's non-android individual AIs of roughly human-equivalent intelligence) are unnecessary for the running of the starships, and have a status somewhere between passengers, pets and parasites." (taken from a copy found at http://www.vavatch.co.uk/books/banks/cultnote.htm http://www.vavatch.co.uk/books/banks/cultnote.htm)
vinnyvichy 2y ago
What's not so mainstream [knowledge] is that housecats are de facto sacred to Iain Banks' millieu (as well as to the otherwise iconoclastic Mohammedans https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam_and_cats https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam_and_cats) Ok, I(M)B himself has compared lesser beings in the Culture to peasants http://strangehorizons.com/non-fiction/articles/a-few-questions-about-the-culture-an-interview-with-iain-banks/ http://strangehorizons.com/non-fiction/articles/a-few-questi...
- 082349872349872 2y ago
  https://www.burninghou.se/p/the-naming-of-cats-and-an-offering https://www.burninghou.se/p/the-naming-of-cats-and-an-offeri... Lagniappe: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=euIrO9spk2A https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=euIrO9spk2A
  - vinnyvichy 2y ago
    Taisho guardian Kota https://youtu.be/ZMQLWKZjsbc https://youtu.be/ZMQLWKZjsbc https://www.pinterest.com/pin/goblin-cat-finale--377035800061944095/ https://www.pinterest.com/pin/goblin-cat-finale--37703580006... Interview with the novelizer pointing out some of the Chinese elements https://www.bookbang.jp/review/article/734915 https://www.bookbang.jp/review/article/734915
    - 082349872349872 2y ago
      > 何かを禁ずることで力を引き出す。「形・真・理」は、禁じているわけではないですが、条件が揃わなければ力が発揮できない。制約を与えることで、力、強大な力が発揮されるんだ、と捉えています。 That's why I find myself drawn to the algebraic — in hopes of drawing out some unreasonable (monstrous?) effectiveness... > "The syntax is the soul. Study the soul to know the syntax. Evil mind, evil syntax". —not Toranosuke Shimada https://www.theonion.com/kitten-thinks-of-nothing-but-murder-all-day-1819588260 https://www.theonion.com/kitten-thinks-of-nothing-but-murder...
      - vinnyvichy 2y ago
        Cats as (Arab/syriac) guest demon/god of algebra? (It's just inconvenient that they are also associated with category theory) Brings to mind the Atiyah (who was Lebanese) quote.