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This is a farce. If you've ever had a clearance you know those documents were improperly removed from some secure facility, stored wrong, and possessed illegall

This is a farce. If you've ever had a clearance you know those documents were improperly removed from some secure facility, stored wrong, and possessed illegally. If you or I had even 1 box like that, we'd be in jail One justice system for the powerful, another harsher system for the rest of us. Couldn't be plainer.

taylodl 2y ago
Yep. If you or I had done what Trump has done we'd be busting rocks at Leavenworth. Trump is the Deep State - one set of rules for them, another set for us.
JumpCrisscross 2y ago
> If you've ever had a clearance you know those documents were improperly removed from some secure facility, stored wrong, and possessed illegally Classification was created by executive order [1]. There is a legitimate question as to whether the President is covered because, at the end of the day, whether something is classified is up to them. (Trump removed the material while still President.) Unfortunately, we never got there. [1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Classified_information_in_the_United_States https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Classified_information_in_th...
- rootusrootus 2y ago
  Classification authority derives from the executive but the president himself does not exercise it directly. But assuming for a moment he could -- did Trump scribble out the classification on these documents, to at least make it seem like he declassified them? Also, when did he transport them to his compound? Was he still president at the time? Former presidents do not have the legal right to declassify anything at all.
  - JumpCrisscross 2y ago
    > did Trump scribble out the classification on these documents, to at least make it seem like he declassified them? No. But it’s an open question if him thinking it changes their classification. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ > when did he transport them to his compound? Was he still president at the time? He removed them from the White House before Biden was sworn in.
    - rootusrootus 2y ago
      > No. But it’s an open question if him thinking it changes their classification. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ That seems like a huge stretch. Maybe, maybe, if he had contemporaneous notes that described what he was thinking at the time. Otherwise it is a retroactive excuse for breaking the law, and I cannot imagine that flying in any other legal situation. I see that line of thought discussed, and then basically discarded by reputable sources [0]. As a layman, I think their conclusion sounds way less convoluted than the argument in Trump's favor. The president can declassify most (not all) documents, but there is a procedure for doing so. And while it may not be a legal requirement yet, there should also be an explanation for why the document was worthy of being declassified. Another case where the law did not anticipate an executive hostile to the law and the nation. That can be fixed in time. The authority for classification may rest with the executive, but clearly it should not be solely vested in a single individual without limits. Not when national security is concerned. [0] https://www.americanbar.org/news/abanews/aba-news-archives/2022/10/fact-check-presidential-authority/ https://www.americanbar.org/news/abanews/aba-news-archives/2...
      - ceejayoz 2y ago
        > Maybe, maybe, if he had contemporaneous notes that described what he was thinking at the time. We do! There's an audio recording! https://www.cnn.com/2023/06/26/politics/trump-classified-documents-audio/index.html https://www.cnn.com/2023/06/26/politics/trump-classified-doc... > “See as president I could have declassified it,” Trump says. “Now I can’t, you know, but this is still a secret.” > “Now we have a problem,” his staffer responds.

taylodl 2y ago

Yep. If you or I had done what Trump has done we'd be busting rocks at Leavenworth. Trump is the Deep State - one set of rules for them, another set for us.

JumpCrisscross 2y ago

> If you've ever had a clearance you know those documents were improperly removed from some secure facility, stored wrong, and possessed illegally Classification was created by executive order [1]. There is a legitimate question as to whether the President is covered because, at the end of the day, whether something is classified is up to them. (Trump removed the material while still President.) Unfortunately, we never got there. [1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Classified_information_in_the_United_States https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Classified_information_in_th...

rootusrootus 2y ago
Classification authority derives from the executive but the president himself does not exercise it directly. But assuming for a moment he could -- did Trump scribble out the classification on these documents, to at least make it seem like he declassified them? Also, when did he transport them to his compound? Was he still president at the time? Former presidents do not have the legal right to declassify anything at all.
- JumpCrisscross 2y ago
  > did Trump scribble out the classification on these documents, to at least make it seem like he declassified them? No. But it’s an open question if him thinking it changes their classification. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ > when did he transport them to his compound? Was he still president at the time? He removed them from the White House before Biden was sworn in.
  - rootusrootus 2y ago
    > No. But it’s an open question if him thinking it changes their classification. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ That seems like a huge stretch. Maybe, maybe, if he had contemporaneous notes that described what he was thinking at the time. Otherwise it is a retroactive excuse for breaking the law, and I cannot imagine that flying in any other legal situation. I see that line of thought discussed, and then basically discarded by reputable sources [0]. As a layman, I think their conclusion sounds way less convoluted than the argument in Trump's favor. The president can declassify most (not all) documents, but there is a procedure for doing so. And while it may not be a legal requirement yet, there should also be an explanation for why the document was worthy of being declassified. Another case where the law did not anticipate an executive hostile to the law and the nation. That can be fixed in time. The authority for classification may rest with the executive, but clearly it should not be solely vested in a single individual without limits. Not when national security is concerned. [0] https://www.americanbar.org/news/abanews/aba-news-archives/2022/10/fact-check-presidential-authority/ https://www.americanbar.org/news/abanews/aba-news-archives/2...
    - ceejayoz 2y ago
      > Maybe, maybe, if he had contemporaneous notes that described what he was thinking at the time. We do! There's an audio recording! https://www.cnn.com/2023/06/26/politics/trump-classified-documents-audio/index.html https://www.cnn.com/2023/06/26/politics/trump-classified-doc... > “See as president I could have declassified it,” Trump says. “Now I can’t, you know, but this is still a secret.” > “Now we have a problem,” his staffer responds.