4 ms·

I got involved in open source when I was in my teens, and I'm now pushing 40. I'm as interested as I ever was in consumer free software, but... Having worked

I got involved in open source when I was in my teens, and I'm now pushing 40. I'm as interested as I ever was in consumer free software, but... Having worked professionally in the software industry for the majority of my career (most of that time in open source), I just could not care less about what comprises the open source "movement" today. I don't want to rehash the whole free software versus open source discussion here, but suffice it to say, most of the energy being put into open source projects today is completely uninteresting to me. Enabling a developer ecosystem with open source, only to see this technology used to create proprietary and downright Orwellian software that abuses the rights of end users more than any point in history doesn't motivate me to participate in corporate open source. Wake me up when we start writing software where the beneficiary is the end user. Do you want to attract young people to open source again? Start actually building software where the story behind why open source matters is actually true again.

causal 2y ago
"Open source software leads to proprietary Orwellian tech" is quite the take
- jonnycomputer 2y ago
  I think putting everything on github might have.
- freeone3000 2y ago
  AGPL or CC-NC are the only ways to go. Otherwise, you’re working for Facebook for free.
- anticorporate 2y ago
  I'm curious which part of my assertion you disagree with: 1) Consumer software has become Orwellian. 2) The primary usage of open source in the past decade, especially the software represented by OSPOs, has been developing a robust software development and operations ecosystem used to build and host proprietary technologies. Do you feel that either are inaccurate?
  - causal 2y ago
    Building proprietary tech is what builds proprietary tech. Facebook developers also use the power grid, but that fact shouldn't divert rage towards solar panels. And there very much are open source software projects specifically designed to combat "Orwellian" tech. I would not have those be proprietary too.
    - anticorporate 2y ago
      > Facebook developers also use the power grid, but that fact shouldn't divert rage towards solar panels. Huh? In this example, it would be more like I don't really care about commercial solar panel installers supporting Facebook. I do care about solar, and would be excited about more home grown solar solutions, and I think kids seeing people in their community benefit directly from solar is more likely to get them to go into solar technology than seeing it benefit some giant corporation, especially when the giant corporation is just using that solar energy to do shitty things.
neilv 2y ago
> Wake me up when we start writing software where the beneficiary is the end user. Too true. And a lot of the chatter I hear about benefiting the user seems like regurgitated marketing copy and euphemism, with AFAICT no awareness of what really developing for the user would be like. > Do you want to attract young people to open source again? Start actually building software where the story behind why open source matters is actually true again. Yes, and I have a guess of where the potential likely is (with a little background)... I wonder whether this is actually harder to appeal to the amenable people than it used to be, because they're surrounded by ubiquitous conflicting messages -- about what computers, software, development, collaboration, design (UX for engagement and manipulation), charity (it's for college applications), etc. are about. And when even the basic tools with which you can build new things are getting twisted, with anti-social intent implicit in their design. Remember when programmers were nerds -- in the sense of some degree of social outcast, and when looking at the equivalent of a smartphone in public risked getting you physically beaten up, and certainly ridiculed? Not the "nerd" that currently means having the latest gadgets for posturing on social media, and being on track for a big-money career that upper-middle families launch their kids into, and which is blessed as fashionable by the cool kids at school? Maybe the next contributors in the earlier spirit still have to come from people who have an outside perspective, and now who are also strong-minded enough to cut through the deafening noise of commercial greed messages.
taylodl 2y ago
Right? I'm not interested in working for tech billionaires for free. How many posts here on HN are from people that someone forked their project and are now selling it? I always check out the license - oh, MIT or BSD. You opened yourself to that.
JohnFen 2y ago
This is a huge part of why I stopped engaging with the OSS community myself.

causal 2y ago

"Open source software leads to proprietary Orwellian tech" is quite the take

jonnycomputer 2y ago
I think putting everything on github might have.
freeone3000 2y ago
AGPL or CC-NC are the only ways to go. Otherwise, you’re working for Facebook for free.
anticorporate 2y ago
I'm curious which part of my assertion you disagree with: 1) Consumer software has become Orwellian. 2) The primary usage of open source in the past decade, especially the software represented by OSPOs, has been developing a robust software development and operations ecosystem used to build and host proprietary technologies. Do you feel that either are inaccurate?
- causal 2y ago
  Building proprietary tech is what builds proprietary tech. Facebook developers also use the power grid, but that fact shouldn't divert rage towards solar panels. And there very much are open source software projects specifically designed to combat "Orwellian" tech. I would not have those be proprietary too.
  - anticorporate 2y ago
    > Facebook developers also use the power grid, but that fact shouldn't divert rage towards solar panels. Huh? In this example, it would be more like I don't really care about commercial solar panel installers supporting Facebook. I do care about solar, and would be excited about more home grown solar solutions, and I think kids seeing people in their community benefit directly from solar is more likely to get them to go into solar technology than seeing it benefit some giant corporation, especially when the giant corporation is just using that solar energy to do shitty things.

neilv 2y ago

> Wake me up when we start writing software where the beneficiary is the end user. Too true. And a lot of the chatter I hear about benefiting the user seems like regurgitated marketing copy and euphemism, with AFAICT no awareness of what really developing for the user would be like. > Do you want to attract young people to open source again? Start actually building software where the story behind why open source matters is actually true again. Yes, and I have a guess of where the potential likely is (with a little background)... I wonder whether this is actually harder to appeal to the amenable people than it used to be, because they're surrounded by ubiquitous conflicting messages -- about what computers, software, development, collaboration, design (UX for engagement and manipulation), charity (it's for college applications), etc. are about. And when even the basic tools with which you can build new things are getting twisted, with anti-social intent implicit in their design. Remember when programmers were nerds -- in the sense of some degree of social outcast, and when looking at the equivalent of a smartphone in public risked getting you physically beaten up, and certainly ridiculed? Not the "nerd" that currently means having the latest gadgets for posturing on social media, and being on track for a big-money career that upper-middle families launch their kids into, and which is blessed as fashionable by the cool kids at school? Maybe the next contributors in the earlier spirit still have to come from people who have an outside perspective, and now who are also strong-minded enough to cut through the deafening noise of commercial greed messages.

taylodl 2y ago

Right? I'm not interested in working for tech billionaires for free. How many posts here on HN are from people that someone forked their project and are now selling it? I always check out the license - oh, MIT or BSD. You opened yourself to that.

JohnFen 2y ago

This is a huge part of why I stopped engaging with the OSS community myself.