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When I was a junior engineer, I felt like I wasn't good enough to contribute to anything open-source, and the open source communities around the projects I like

When I was a junior engineer, I felt like I wasn't good enough to contribute to anything open-source, and the open source communities around the projects I liked felt quite condescending. Once I was a senior engineer, every single employment contract specifically had clauses preventing me from contributing to open source projects (except with specific, explicit permission from your manager).

JohnFen 2y ago
That's really weird. Do those contracts mean that you are prohibited from contributing in your role in the company, or prohibited in your private life? I've found the former to be reasonably common (and I don't object to that). I've not encountered the latter at all, but then I also always make sure to negotiate away all the clauses that give my employer any claim over work I do on my own time with my own resources, or the ability to prohibit me from engaging in development on my own.
- jonnycomputer 2y ago
  Not everyone has the negotiating power to negotiate away terms they don't like.
  - JohnFen 2y ago
    Maybe not, but it's something I've been doing since I was a junior dev. I've rarely had any pushback on it. Regardless, I suspect that most senior devs have quite a lot of negotiating power.
    - jonnycomputer 2y ago
      Good to know. I suspect a lot of people don't even try.
      - JohnFen 2y ago
        It's shocking how many people don't even know that this is a thing that can be done in the first place. People often see the terms offered as a "take it or leave it" sort of deal. But it rarely is. The terms of employment are the opening offer of a contract negotiation. The worst thing making a counteroffer will get you is "no", not "we're withdrawing the employment offer". As my old business partner taught me, if you don't ask then the answer is automatically "no".
      - falcolas 2y ago
        I know I've tried. And every time it was "just a standard part of the contract" and "not up for negotiation". Yes, they'd rather lose me as a candidate than offer a one-off contract change. A surprising number of places are like this - the perceived cost of maintaining a unique contract over the years is greater than the value provided by any possible engineer.
        ryandrake 2y ago
        Every company I've ever worked for was totally unwilling to negotiate on IP assignment, open source work, moonlighting, and similar policy. I even tried the clever thing where you strike out parts you don't like, and it's always met with: "No. Here's the full employment agreement. Sign it unmodified or GTFO."
- seba_dos1 2y ago
  The latter one isn't even legal under reasonable jurisdictions.

JohnFen 2y ago

That's really weird. Do those contracts mean that you are prohibited from contributing in your role in the company, or prohibited in your private life? I've found the former to be reasonably common (and I don't object to that). I've not encountered the latter at all, but then I also always make sure to negotiate away all the clauses that give my employer any claim over work I do on my own time with my own resources, or the ability to prohibit me from engaging in development on my own.

jonnycomputer 2y ago
Not everyone has the negotiating power to negotiate away terms they don't like.
- JohnFen 2y ago
  Maybe not, but it's something I've been doing since I was a junior dev. I've rarely had any pushback on it. Regardless, I suspect that most senior devs have quite a lot of negotiating power.
  - jonnycomputer 2y ago
    Good to know. I suspect a lot of people don't even try.
    - JohnFen 2y ago
      It's shocking how many people don't even know that this is a thing that can be done in the first place. People often see the terms offered as a "take it or leave it" sort of deal. But it rarely is. The terms of employment are the opening offer of a contract negotiation. The worst thing making a counteroffer will get you is "no", not "we're withdrawing the employment offer". As my old business partner taught me, if you don't ask then the answer is automatically "no".
    - falcolas 2y ago
      I know I've tried. And every time it was "just a standard part of the contract" and "not up for negotiation". Yes, they'd rather lose me as a candidate than offer a one-off contract change. A surprising number of places are like this - the perceived cost of maintaining a unique contract over the years is greater than the value provided by any possible engineer.
      - ryandrake 2y ago
        Every company I've ever worked for was totally unwilling to negotiate on IP assignment, open source work, moonlighting, and similar policy. I even tried the clever thing where you strike out parts you don't like, and it's always met with: "No. Here's the full employment agreement. Sign it unmodified or GTFO."
seba_dos1 2y ago
The latter one isn't even legal under reasonable jurisdictions.