10 ms·

Congress accidentally legalized THC six years ago

192 points by fortran77 2y ago

chomp 2y ago
Yep you’ve been able to buy bud, edibles, all sorts of stuff here in Texas from big name smoke shops, for now.
- inciampati 2y ago
  [flagged]
  - BugsJustFindMe 2y ago
    They've known from the start. There are d8/d9 shops everywhere now. It's kind of annoying actually. I think the articles have been slow to roll out because of the line at the very end of the article. They've been waiting until it's too late.
- AvieDeckard 2y ago
  I've been very much enjoying these loopholes, as someone who lacks any personal connections in my state. I've been keeping an eye on these proposed reforms. It might be time to buy some up to keep for a rainy day.
- dtagames 2y ago
  Indeed. The state health department tried to stop it a few years ago. The $8 billion hemp product industry in Texas ended that in about 3 days. The state was found to have no jurisdiction. Recently, there was an "alternative hemp products" expo here in Houston (that's the new word for this stuff). Just like the marijuana expos in Colorado when that first became legal, Texas is a dry state for pot with no legal states within an easy drive. This, combined with our huge population, makes it a natural market "alt hemp." I don't think it will be going away here anytime soon.
  - 0cf8612b2e1e 2y ago
    The state was found to have no jurisdiction. I know politicians can justify laws coinciding with their belief system, but this strikes me as hilarious rationale. I thought the state was supposed to be the final authority. Does anyone have the ability to regulate the sale of plants?
    - ImPostingOnHN 2y ago
      The constitution (Texas' and/or USA's) is (theoretically) the final authority. It's possible that many things don't have constitutional authorization for state regulation.
      - 0cf8612b2e1e 2y ago
        Regulating sale of crops (via taxes, quality control standards, defining a vegetable, or even the standardized size of a bushel) seem government rights with exceedingly long precedent. The constitution was signed when the economy was predominantly agricultural. I appreciate the outcome, even though I detest the, “I’ll use it when it benefits my beliefs” kind of execution.
        lesuorac 2y ago
        Does it? The original intent of the 5th amendment was that even your stuff couldn't be used against you in a court of law. The Founders were all wealthy businessmen committing treason; surely they'd have been in support of a very weak government when they later framed the Constitution. The USDA is 1862 and some of the more famous events like "The Jungle" [1] leading to food safety laws are well after the Constitution. Getting sick an dieing was just a fact of the old times and I don't think people were like "lets band together and use government to make use get less sick". [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_Meat_Inspection_Act#Historical_motivation_for_enactment https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_Meat_Inspection_Act#Hi...
        throwup238 2y ago
foreverobama 2y ago
[dead]
whoitwas 2y ago
Yes, you can buy chemical extractions of not delta-9 cannabinoids that might make you a little almost high.
- wavefunction 2y ago
  It will make you very high. Not necessarily in the same manner or experience that "normal cannabis" does but most of those products do contain synthetic terpenes and isomers of delta-9 or what they market as "delta-10" or other product names. Paired with CBD in the admixture they can approximate the natural cannabis experience
  - jajko 2y ago
    Can somebody else confirm this? This stuff was and sometimes still is freely available in Europe, and so is CBD in various forms. At the end I don't care what chemicals do get mixed but trips from THC substitutes are not the same and not only for me subpar to the point of ignoring it (closer to being dizzy from alcohol than fun creative weed, also tolerance seems to be built much faster).
    - kghjfdfjsugk 2y ago
      delta-8 tends to be more mild than delta-9, but it definitely does the job. the bigger issue with delta-8 is you can only find it in extract form (i.e. vape pens), and it's hard to find a quality brand that doesn't taste like shit. another issue the article doesn't mention is the thca loophole. the farm bill only concerns itself with straight delta-9 thc, and as it turns out most weed has very little delta-9. most weed is high in thca and fairly low in delta-9 thc. the thc-a is converted to delta-9 thc through decarboxylation by heat -- when you smoke, vape, or cook the flower, the thc-a become delta-9 thc. because of this, i can visit a hemp shop here in indiana where i buy what seems to just be plain old weed of pretty decent quality. it's labeled as thc-a and costs about $250/oz.
      - kjkjadksj 2y ago
aoieu 2y ago
Are we sure this loophole in the legislation was accidental? Seems like a surprisingly convenient mistake to make.
- ceejayoz 2y ago
  Wouldn't be the first time. Dems in MN managed to slip a similar loophole through the Republican-controlled state senate a while back. https://www.npr.org/2022/07/02/1109576113/minnesota-thc-edibles-accident-delta-8 https://www.npr.org/2022/07/02/1109576113/minnesota-thc-edib... Or Tennesee, where early versions of a law accidentally forgot to keep marrying a toddler illegal. (They fixed that one.) https://www.npr.org/2022/07/02/1109576113/minnesota-thc-edibles-accident-delta-8 https://www.npr.org/2022/07/02/1109576113/minnesota-thc-edib...
  - mywittyname 2y ago
    > Minnesota state Sen. Jim Abeler, a Republican from Anoka, told the Minneapolis Star-Tribune he did not realize this law would allow THC-infused edibles of any kind and thought it would only apply to delta-8 THC products. It's almost as though people who are experts in a field should be in charge of making the specific regulations, with Congress tasking them with high-level objectives. Expect more of this with the Chevron deference ruling. Now we will have judges making these decisions using only technical input from the party in favor of looser restrictions.
    - AmericanChopper 2y ago
      > It's almost as though people who are experts in a field should be in charge of making the specific regulations, with Congress tasking them with high-level objectives. You're literally advocating for a technocracy, which most people don't want. We don't need a overclass of technical elites running our lives, we just need competent law makers. Legislators can and do consult with experts when writing their legislation. We don't need to do away with democracy just because some of them don't do a good job. Even if they are useless, we do at least have the lawmakers that we want to have.
gnu8 2y ago
I was wondering if the Supreme Court had legalized all drugs recently when they discovered that the executive branch agencies lack the power to create detailed regulations. Surely that would include the DEA’s power to schedule drugs, wouldn’t it?
- ceejayoz 2y ago
  No; the ruling mostly moves adjudication of disputes over regulations from the administrative agency into the courts. From one set of unelected bureaucrats to another. It's likely to result in a DDoS of the court system, but all existing regulations remain in effect until someone brings it to that one-judge jurisdiction in Texas with the judge that loves issuing nationwide injunctions. It's darkly funny to me that the Court, in this power grab, managed to illustrate how insane this is probably going to get directly in the opinion; it repeatedly mixed up nitrogen oxides with nitrous oxide. https://newrepublic.com/article/183285/supreme-court-chevron-gorsuch-nitrous-oxide https://newrepublic.com/article/183285/supreme-court-chevron...
  - mywittyname 2y ago
    >It's likely to result in a DDoS of the court system, but all existing regulations remain in effect until someone brings it to that one-judge jurisdiction in Texas with the judge that loves issuing nationwide injunctions. But also SCOTUS shot down stare decisis, so another court at the same level can make the opposite ruling and that ruling also holds. Someone is going to eventually take this ruling to it's logical conclusion: using "scientific mumbo-jumbo" to get a compound legalized/illegal. Hopefully it's something like, "SCOTUS bans all sales of all forms of dihydrogen monoxide", but there's the very real possibility of something far more sinister.
    - PaulDavisThe1st 2y ago
      Whether or not they shot down stare decisis is purely a matter of opinion. They have issued no formal ruling on the principle, and I am sure if challenged would insist that it still holds. It doesn't matter than you or I think that their actual rulings this term (not to mention Dobbs) bring stare decisis at least into question, at most into the abyss.
deleted 2y ago
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deleted 2y ago
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prophesi 2y ago
Wish they delved further into legal Delta 9 THC. The Farm Bill limits how much of the activated Delta 9 products may contain. Essentially, they grow hemp like regular marijuana, except it's grown in the shade and plucked early. This prevents the sunlight from activating the THC-A in the plant and keeps the federally regulated Delta 9 under the legal limit. Now breed the plants so that they have a higher level of THC-A, and you get to where we are today where THC-A bud you can buy in a smoke shop will be about as potent as recreational/medical marijuana. This is also increasing the potency of recreational/medical marijuana across the board as places will use the same plants harvested for THC-A; just grown in the sun instead.
- bitxbitxbitcoin 2y ago
  There is a lot of misinformation here. THC-A is the acid form of Delta 9 THC. Marijuana has mostly THC-A that doesn’t turn into d9 thc until it is decarboxylated. Look at any test result COAs of marijuana to see what I am talking about. THC-A hemp is just marijuana that isn’t considered marijuana until it is burnt. Hemp is just cannabis. It is all cannabis. The same cultivars are being used for THC-A hemp as medicinal and recreational. In fact, there is genetic bottlenecking going on. As you said though, cutting early generally ensures that any cultivar doesn’t “test hot” for d9 THC. Besides sufficient heat, THC-A turns into d9THC through oxidation as well as UV exposure so the sun isn’t necessary. There is plenty of THC-A hemp flower being grown indoors too. Happy to answer any further questions.
  - prophesi 2y ago
    Thanks, that's why I wish they delved into the topic further as I'm certainly no expert in chemistry or growing cannabis. When I meant "activated" delta 9, I meant decarb'd as you said. Not sure where I'm giving misinformation apart from that. Would you say that vapes and edibles in this loophole inherently have to be sprayed with chemicals, due to how these inherently must be decarb'd, and due to the very low yield of other cannabinoids like Delta 8 in cannabis?
    - bitxbitxbitcoin 2y ago
robg 2y ago
Clickbait, not weed but THC and CBD derivatives that when combined can approximate the subjective feeling of being “high”.
- BugsJustFindMe 2y ago
  The molecules are the molecules. There's no "approximate" here.
  - robg 2y ago
    Molecules don’t equal the subjectivity of different strains, terpenes, THC levels, etc.
    - kjkjadksj 2y ago
      There is a lot of push among marketing for entourage effect but actual evidence for it is pretty scant.
      - ceejayoz 2y ago
        It's probably a lot like wine, where blindfolded critics struggle to determine between red and white or $5 and $5000 wine but can claim to tell you which particular hillside of a vineyard in France the bottle came from if they can see the bottle.
        jajko 2y ago
        If you never felt any difference between 5 euro and 50 euro red wine, you are buying wrong wines and probably at wrong place. I only once had wine over 100 euros, but that was something else altogether. I put prices in euros as they are in France, where we often shop although not coming from there (and having no idea about prices across the pond), nor having kind of 'wine tradition' in family/region/country I come from. I can't judge price from taste, but for sure I can appreciate massive variations and types of taste experience in good red wines, bigger than any other drink I've experienced including whiskeys (again, never tried expensive ones but say up to 100 euro per bottle). Initial hit, body, aftertaste, how it changes when in your mouth. The higher ones are (near) flawless experience every sip, rich, smooth tastes I couldn't previously imagine a simple wine can hold. Not saying every wine deserves its price, most probably not, but there are gems even in mid tier category, at least for me (+ my wife who feels the same). Also, one of best red wine experiences was a random buy for 12 euros from some local bodega in Puglia, south Italy. Explosion of fruits and nuts, very very long and varied aftertaste that felt like a small symphony. I tried desperately after vacation there to buy it online, and its simply not out there... one of those local, (still) highly under-appreciated gems.
grubbs 2y ago
Is this the reason I could legally buy weed in Nashville, TN a few weeks ago? It sounded like there were some crazy loophole there.
- gs17 2y ago
  The same loophole is used to sell THC products in stores here, but any plant material used is usually hemp. There also used to (there still might be) be guys selling fake weed (as in no high) products to tourists on Broadway downtown where the "loophole" was that the product wasn't illegal and they only gave you an implication of what it was. As in it was the equivalent of a guy walking up to you to sell a bag of ground up leaves he says will blow your mind and it's just basil.
  - is_this_valid_3 2y ago
    There are solvent extracts and there are CO2 extracts. State testing regulations in other states tests for solvents: the -anes; propane, butane, hexane,. Some fire extinguishers are tanks of CO2. Compared to a double-boiler reduction with flammable alcohol and oil on a stove, quality-controlled extracts are in the interest of public safety. There are much safer desktop infusion units with electronic temperature control, and then an ISO factory might have more consistent doses than sketch gummies. I don't think the sky is falling due to the lesser-regulated hemp consumable products. Quality control and banking would probably further reduce the cost to society. If the 'sin tax' on recreational isn't enough, then raise it to pay for substance abuse treatment and prevention. Practically, retail strain availability differs in states with only Farm Bill hemp products, in that the strains being selected for by the regulation don't have same or sufficient levels of the unscheduled cannabinoids which may also be as or more therapeutic than the terpene essential oils in fresh flower without preservative.
    - bitxbitxbitcoin 2y ago
      The solventless extracts (mechanical separation) are what the premium market enjoys for quality reasons.
BugsJustFindMe 2y ago
My problem with this whole phenomenon is that the explosion of smoke/vape/candy shops has become something of a commercial nuisance in places. It has a tendency to degrade the character of a business district when seemingly every other shop is selling basically the same set of products. It can feel a lot like that Lewis Black standup bit about finding a Starbucks across the street from another Starbucks.
- ceejayoz 2y ago
  Same thing happened with cupcake shops and microbreweries in my area. Now it’s happening with car washes. 75% of them will be out of business in a few years as the people who think “sweet, easy money!” discover it’s less fun than they imagined.
  - Suppafly 2y ago
    >Now it’s happening with car washes. Yeah, I don't know what the correct number of car washes is to have, but I swear my city has enough for every car to wash every day with capacity left over.
    - madcow2011 2y ago
      Wait, do you live in my city? Holy cow, I thought it was just us noticing this bizarre trend of carwashes popping up on every street corner...
      - cogman10 2y ago
        A lot of it has to do with taxes. These carwashes are basically just real-estate parking. The formula is simple, buy a plot of land in an area you think will be high demand, plop a carwash on it to reduce taxes for owning that land (maybe pull in a few bucks here and there), wait for the land value to appreciate significantly, sell it for a profit to future development (or another person who thinks the land will further appreciate). End result loads of carwashes doing nothing. Pretty sure it was the same reason mattress stores were everywhere at one point. You just need like 1 person to operate the store so paying their salary is nothing compared to the future appreciation of the land value.
mastax 2y ago
I’m dumbfounded that this seems to have gone completely under the radar. Does being passed by Trump make it immune to the culture war? Does it just feel right to people that weed is loophole-legal, such that it seems totally unremarkable?
- lbotos 2y ago
  Well, lawmakers are trying to close the loophole https://norml.org/news/2024/05/30/federal-house-committee-approves-amendment-barring-production-of-hemp-derived-intoxicating-products/ https://norml.org/news/2024/05/30/federal-house-committee-ap... May still allow for THC-A but time will tell where it lands.
- dtagames 2y ago
  People vote with their wallets. It's clear that Americans either want weed or don't care if other people do. This law -- a complete Federal law, tested numerous times and not a loophole -- survives because the public wants the product and this is the way to get it.
  - galdosdi 2y ago
    Sigh, it's probably because, for cannabis-naive people, it's far harder to tell if someone is super high than if someone is super drunk. There's not a lot of difference between a high person who's trying not to let on, and someone who's just rather tired or a bit dumb. It's not like with alcohol where past a few drinks it's pretty easy to tell. But that doesn't mean the effects are harmless. Legalization was one thing, but valorization is another. THC potency levels are going through the roof and availability of analogues is too. I feel like there will eventually be problematic societal consequences and a pushback a generation from now, much as happened a few decades after cheap hard liquor distillation was invented, or a few decades after we hit peak tobacco. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beer_Street_and_Gin_Lane https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beer_Street_and_Gin_Lane Also, here's an ad from a century ago selling whiskey, claiming it is a medicinal cure all for any and every condition, much as is common today with cannabis https://tf-cmsv2-smithsonianmag-media.s3.amazonaws.com/filer_public/20/94/2094ec41-60d5-4bae-bb9c-a06335e153d7/too_funny_to_not_clip.jpg https://tf-cmsv2-smithsonianmag-media.s3.amazonaws.com/filer...
nerdix 2y ago
And now all the soccer moms in illegal states are buying delta 9 gummies at CBD stores (and there isn't mass hysteria in the streets) so those states are reluctant to outright ban it. We'll see how long that lasts.
mkatx 2y ago
Just legalize it.. There's so much to say.. Yeah, you can buy thc-a hemp legally in most places, as it's federally legal, and few states restrict it specifically. But.. just a couple notes to keep in mind: This is indeed a grey area, even if it seems explicitly legal. Thc-a, through time, heat, oxygen, etc, WILL degrade into federal illegal THC. So if you buy a jar of thca hemp, the thca will turn into THC over time, and potentially rise above the legal limit of THC percentage. This could mean, in the worse case scenario, that if they confiscate your legally purchased hemp, and test it, then they could charge you for illegal cannabis possession because it has more than the allowed thc, and therefore is not legal hemp. Also, I've asked at hemp stores, and was told no.. But indeed, some growers spray thca liquid crystal and even non-cannabis derived terpenes on their bud. Pretty shady imo.. This market, although a legal victory, is actually a detriment to the industry and legalization as a whole, IMHO.
- grecy 2y ago
  > Just legalize it.. It feels like the US needs to just make some really basic decisions that would vastly improve the quality of life for hundreds of millions of it's citizens so it can get on with actual important stuff. Legalize weed. Legalize abortion. Fix the severely broken healthcare system. Make education affordable. Bring the quality of life up to par with other OECD countries, then start actually making stuff better - renewable power, cheap and good public transit, fix crumbling infrastructure. So many arguments about petty stuff that should have just been decided and moved on from two decades ago.
  - mistermann 2y ago
    Marijuana could even catalyze such initiatives, especially if used strategically. Strategic cultural initiatives aren't exactly our thing here in the west (at the public level anyways), but marijuana could also catalyze changing that!
  - RiverCrochet 2y ago
    > It feels like the US needs to just make some really basic decisions that would vastly improve the quality of life for hundreds of millions of it's citizens It already did. If you are of the citizens that have hundreds of millions, you have a quality life.
sharpshadow 2y ago
These edibles are even spreading over here to Europe. I was very conventional in the thinking about their potency potential but now I understand better how it works.
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
kortex 2y ago
Yes, but actually no. If the DEA or local LEOs actually wanted to crack down, there is plenty enough wiggle room in the scheduled substances act and all the related add-on laws (esp. Federal Analogue Act), there is enough molecular similarity between the various cannabinoids, and insufficient sensitivity in most chemical tests, plus the tendency of THC-A to decarb (eject a carbon dioxide molecule to give THC) under heating, that these agencies could absolutely give you a hard time and make your life hell for a while. Even if charges didn't stick, you'd still have a bad time and be out thousands in legal feels. What's actually happened is de facto, not de jure, legalization (in effect, but not in law), because of the unpopularity of cannabis prohibition. It's just not worth it in most situations to go after these products at this point. There's still a strong need for actual legalization at this point.
- mind-blight 2y ago
  Totally depends on the product. The federal farm bill states that hemp products need to be under 0.3% THC to be considered hemp. How high you get depends on the milligrams. So, edibles (gummies, etc) can remain under a 0.3% THC by volume in the product while still having more than 5-10 mg per edible. You're not wrong about people being able to make your life hell, but the edibles absolutely fall under the letter of the law. (The one exception being the concentrate used to name the edible with have a large percent THC until it becomes diluted again)
  - deleted 2y ago
    [deleted]
  - krsrhe 2y ago
    A gummy isn’t a hemp product. A gummy is a candy infused with a hemp product. The article’s claim about gummies is supported only by shops, not by courts. https://www.fda.gov/news-events/public-health-focus/fda-regulation-cannabis-and-cannabis-derived-products-including-cannabidiol-cbd https://www.fda.gov/news-events/public-health-focus/fda-regu...
    - true_religion 2y ago
say_it_as_it_is 2y ago
no mention in the article of "Type I", "Type II", or "Type III" cannabis indicates that the research wasn't exhaustive the story here is that there was a hemp strain called Franklin that was getting cbd consumers high. it was considered a hot batch of hemp. growers cultivated additional Franklin derivatives and brought out higher THC-A strains. eventually, growers said to hell with Franklin, let's just sell high THC-A, low THC strains. this categories includes a wide variety of retail strains sold for recreational use today so, yeah. you can get real cannabis, no weird stuff, that will get you absolutely lifted and delivered to your house in most of the states where recreational remains illegal. if you're asking why you haven't heard about this, it's because loose lips sink ships. why am i talking about it now? it doesn't matter anymore! check out flowgardens and wnc-cbd
DesiLurker 2y ago
Recently USSC killed the Chevron Doctrine, I wonder how that impacts the powers of DEA to keep scheduling substances w/o court legal battle. I think its time for some big marijuana corporate to pool resources and challenge DEA for their deference in enforcement.
zoklet-enjoyer 2y ago
I keep telling people marijuana is legal and they don't believe me. I'm so tired of explaining it to people.
mannyv 2y ago
Thanks, Trump! Seriously. It's amusing that Trump essentially legalized hemp/CBD.

192 points by fortran77 2y ago

chomp 2y ago

Yep you’ve been able to buy bud, edibles, all sorts of stuff here in Texas from big name smoke shops, for now.

inciampati 2y ago
[flagged]
- BugsJustFindMe 2y ago
  They've known from the start. There are d8/d9 shops everywhere now. It's kind of annoying actually. I think the articles have been slow to roll out because of the line at the very end of the article. They've been waiting until it's too late.
AvieDeckard 2y ago
I've been very much enjoying these loopholes, as someone who lacks any personal connections in my state. I've been keeping an eye on these proposed reforms. It might be time to buy some up to keep for a rainy day.
dtagames 2y ago
Indeed. The state health department tried to stop it a few years ago. The $8 billion hemp product industry in Texas ended that in about 3 days. The state was found to have no jurisdiction. Recently, there was an "alternative hemp products" expo here in Houston (that's the new word for this stuff). Just like the marijuana expos in Colorado when that first became legal, Texas is a dry state for pot with no legal states within an easy drive. This, combined with our huge population, makes it a natural market "alt hemp." I don't think it will be going away here anytime soon.
- 0cf8612b2e1e 2y ago
  The state was found to have no jurisdiction. I know politicians can justify laws coinciding with their belief system, but this strikes me as hilarious rationale. I thought the state was supposed to be the final authority. Does anyone have the ability to regulate the sale of plants?
  - ImPostingOnHN 2y ago
    The constitution (Texas' and/or USA's) is (theoretically) the final authority. It's possible that many things don't have constitutional authorization for state regulation.
    - 0cf8612b2e1e 2y ago
      Regulating sale of crops (via taxes, quality control standards, defining a vegetable, or even the standardized size of a bushel) seem government rights with exceedingly long precedent. The constitution was signed when the economy was predominantly agricultural. I appreciate the outcome, even though I detest the, “I’ll use it when it benefits my beliefs” kind of execution.
      - lesuorac 2y ago
        Does it? The original intent of the 5th amendment was that even your stuff couldn't be used against you in a court of law. The Founders were all wealthy businessmen committing treason; surely they'd have been in support of a very weak government when they later framed the Constitution. The USDA is 1862 and some of the more famous events like "The Jungle" [1] leading to food safety laws are well after the Constitution. Getting sick an dieing was just a fact of the old times and I don't think people were like "lets band together and use government to make use get less sick". [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_Meat_Inspection_Act#Historical_motivation_for_enactment https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_Meat_Inspection_Act#Hi...
        throwup238 2y ago

foreverobama 2y ago

[dead]

whoitwas 2y ago

Yes, you can buy chemical extractions of not delta-9 cannabinoids that might make you a little almost high.

wavefunction 2y ago
It will make you very high. Not necessarily in the same manner or experience that "normal cannabis" does but most of those products do contain synthetic terpenes and isomers of delta-9 or what they market as "delta-10" or other product names. Paired with CBD in the admixture they can approximate the natural cannabis experience
- jajko 2y ago
  Can somebody else confirm this? This stuff was and sometimes still is freely available in Europe, and so is CBD in various forms. At the end I don't care what chemicals do get mixed but trips from THC substitutes are not the same and not only for me subpar to the point of ignoring it (closer to being dizzy from alcohol than fun creative weed, also tolerance seems to be built much faster).
  - kghjfdfjsugk 2y ago
    delta-8 tends to be more mild than delta-9, but it definitely does the job. the bigger issue with delta-8 is you can only find it in extract form (i.e. vape pens), and it's hard to find a quality brand that doesn't taste like shit. another issue the article doesn't mention is the thca loophole. the farm bill only concerns itself with straight delta-9 thc, and as it turns out most weed has very little delta-9. most weed is high in thca and fairly low in delta-9 thc. the thc-a is converted to delta-9 thc through decarboxylation by heat -- when you smoke, vape, or cook the flower, the thc-a become delta-9 thc. because of this, i can visit a hemp shop here in indiana where i buy what seems to just be plain old weed of pretty decent quality. it's labeled as thc-a and costs about $250/oz.
    - kjkjadksj 2y ago

aoieu 2y ago

Are we sure this loophole in the legislation was accidental? Seems like a surprisingly convenient mistake to make.

ceejayoz 2y ago
Wouldn't be the first time. Dems in MN managed to slip a similar loophole through the Republican-controlled state senate a while back. https://www.npr.org/2022/07/02/1109576113/minnesota-thc-edibles-accident-delta-8 https://www.npr.org/2022/07/02/1109576113/minnesota-thc-edib... Or Tennesee, where early versions of a law accidentally forgot to keep marrying a toddler illegal. (They fixed that one.) https://www.npr.org/2022/07/02/1109576113/minnesota-thc-edibles-accident-delta-8 https://www.npr.org/2022/07/02/1109576113/minnesota-thc-edib...
- mywittyname 2y ago
  > Minnesota state Sen. Jim Abeler, a Republican from Anoka, told the Minneapolis Star-Tribune he did not realize this law would allow THC-infused edibles of any kind and thought it would only apply to delta-8 THC products. It's almost as though people who are experts in a field should be in charge of making the specific regulations, with Congress tasking them with high-level objectives. Expect more of this with the Chevron deference ruling. Now we will have judges making these decisions using only technical input from the party in favor of looser restrictions.
  - AmericanChopper 2y ago
    > It's almost as though people who are experts in a field should be in charge of making the specific regulations, with Congress tasking them with high-level objectives. You're literally advocating for a technocracy, which most people don't want. We don't need a overclass of technical elites running our lives, we just need competent law makers. Legislators can and do consult with experts when writing their legislation. We don't need to do away with democracy just because some of them don't do a good job. Even if they are useless, we do at least have the lawmakers that we want to have.

gnu8 2y ago

I was wondering if the Supreme Court had legalized all drugs recently when they discovered that the executive branch agencies lack the power to create detailed regulations. Surely that would include the DEA’s power to schedule drugs, wouldn’t it?

ceejayoz 2y ago
No; the ruling mostly moves adjudication of disputes over regulations from the administrative agency into the courts. From one set of unelected bureaucrats to another. It's likely to result in a DDoS of the court system, but all existing regulations remain in effect until someone brings it to that one-judge jurisdiction in Texas with the judge that loves issuing nationwide injunctions. It's darkly funny to me that the Court, in this power grab, managed to illustrate how insane this is probably going to get directly in the opinion; it repeatedly mixed up nitrogen oxides with nitrous oxide. https://newrepublic.com/article/183285/supreme-court-chevron-gorsuch-nitrous-oxide https://newrepublic.com/article/183285/supreme-court-chevron...
- mywittyname 2y ago
  >It's likely to result in a DDoS of the court system, but all existing regulations remain in effect until someone brings it to that one-judge jurisdiction in Texas with the judge that loves issuing nationwide injunctions. But also SCOTUS shot down stare decisis, so another court at the same level can make the opposite ruling and that ruling also holds. Someone is going to eventually take this ruling to it's logical conclusion: using "scientific mumbo-jumbo" to get a compound legalized/illegal. Hopefully it's something like, "SCOTUS bans all sales of all forms of dihydrogen monoxide", but there's the very real possibility of something far more sinister.
  - PaulDavisThe1st 2y ago
    Whether or not they shot down stare decisis is purely a matter of opinion. They have issued no formal ruling on the principle, and I am sure if challenged would insist that it still holds. It doesn't matter than you or I think that their actual rulings this term (not to mention Dobbs) bring stare decisis at least into question, at most into the abyss.

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prophesi 2y ago

Wish they delved further into legal Delta 9 THC. The Farm Bill limits how much of the activated Delta 9 products may contain. Essentially, they grow hemp like regular marijuana, except it's grown in the shade and plucked early. This prevents the sunlight from activating the THC-A in the plant and keeps the federally regulated Delta 9 under the legal limit. Now breed the plants so that they have a higher level of THC-A, and you get to where we are today where THC-A bud you can buy in a smoke shop will be about as potent as recreational/medical marijuana. This is also increasing the potency of recreational/medical marijuana across the board as places will use the same plants harvested for THC-A; just grown in the sun instead.

bitxbitxbitcoin 2y ago
There is a lot of misinformation here. THC-A is the acid form of Delta 9 THC. Marijuana has mostly THC-A that doesn’t turn into d9 thc until it is decarboxylated. Look at any test result COAs of marijuana to see what I am talking about. THC-A hemp is just marijuana that isn’t considered marijuana until it is burnt. Hemp is just cannabis. It is all cannabis. The same cultivars are being used for THC-A hemp as medicinal and recreational. In fact, there is genetic bottlenecking going on. As you said though, cutting early generally ensures that any cultivar doesn’t “test hot” for d9 THC. Besides sufficient heat, THC-A turns into d9THC through oxidation as well as UV exposure so the sun isn’t necessary. There is plenty of THC-A hemp flower being grown indoors too. Happy to answer any further questions.
- prophesi 2y ago
  Thanks, that's why I wish they delved into the topic further as I'm certainly no expert in chemistry or growing cannabis. When I meant "activated" delta 9, I meant decarb'd as you said. Not sure where I'm giving misinformation apart from that. Would you say that vapes and edibles in this loophole inherently have to be sprayed with chemicals, due to how these inherently must be decarb'd, and due to the very low yield of other cannabinoids like Delta 8 in cannabis?
  - bitxbitxbitcoin 2y ago

robg 2y ago

Clickbait, not weed but THC and CBD derivatives that when combined can approximate the subjective feeling of being “high”.

BugsJustFindMe 2y ago
The molecules are the molecules. There's no "approximate" here.
- robg 2y ago
  Molecules don’t equal the subjectivity of different strains, terpenes, THC levels, etc.
  - kjkjadksj 2y ago
    There is a lot of push among marketing for entourage effect but actual evidence for it is pretty scant.
    - ceejayoz 2y ago
      It's probably a lot like wine, where blindfolded critics struggle to determine between red and white or $5 and $5000 wine but can claim to tell you which particular hillside of a vineyard in France the bottle came from if they can see the bottle.
      - jajko 2y ago
        If you never felt any difference between 5 euro and 50 euro red wine, you are buying wrong wines and probably at wrong place. I only once had wine over 100 euros, but that was something else altogether. I put prices in euros as they are in France, where we often shop although not coming from there (and having no idea about prices across the pond), nor having kind of 'wine tradition' in family/region/country I come from. I can't judge price from taste, but for sure I can appreciate massive variations and types of taste experience in good red wines, bigger than any other drink I've experienced including whiskeys (again, never tried expensive ones but say up to 100 euro per bottle). Initial hit, body, aftertaste, how it changes when in your mouth. The higher ones are (near) flawless experience every sip, rich, smooth tastes I couldn't previously imagine a simple wine can hold. Not saying every wine deserves its price, most probably not, but there are gems even in mid tier category, at least for me (+ my wife who feels the same). Also, one of best red wine experiences was a random buy for 12 euros from some local bodega in Puglia, south Italy. Explosion of fruits and nuts, very very long and varied aftertaste that felt like a small symphony. I tried desperately after vacation there to buy it online, and its simply not out there... one of those local, (still) highly under-appreciated gems.

grubbs 2y ago

Is this the reason I could legally buy weed in Nashville, TN a few weeks ago? It sounded like there were some crazy loophole there.

gs17 2y ago
The same loophole is used to sell THC products in stores here, but any plant material used is usually hemp. There also used to (there still might be) be guys selling fake weed (as in no high) products to tourists on Broadway downtown where the "loophole" was that the product wasn't illegal and they only gave you an implication of what it was. As in it was the equivalent of a guy walking up to you to sell a bag of ground up leaves he says will blow your mind and it's just basil.
- is_this_valid_3 2y ago
  There are solvent extracts and there are CO2 extracts. State testing regulations in other states tests for solvents: the -anes; propane, butane, hexane,. Some fire extinguishers are tanks of CO2. Compared to a double-boiler reduction with flammable alcohol and oil on a stove, quality-controlled extracts are in the interest of public safety. There are much safer desktop infusion units with electronic temperature control, and then an ISO factory might have more consistent doses than sketch gummies. I don't think the sky is falling due to the lesser-regulated hemp consumable products. Quality control and banking would probably further reduce the cost to society. If the 'sin tax' on recreational isn't enough, then raise it to pay for substance abuse treatment and prevention. Practically, retail strain availability differs in states with only Farm Bill hemp products, in that the strains being selected for by the regulation don't have same or sufficient levels of the unscheduled cannabinoids which may also be as or more therapeutic than the terpene essential oils in fresh flower without preservative.
  - bitxbitxbitcoin 2y ago
    The solventless extracts (mechanical separation) are what the premium market enjoys for quality reasons.

BugsJustFindMe 2y ago

My problem with this whole phenomenon is that the explosion of smoke/vape/candy shops has become something of a commercial nuisance in places. It has a tendency to degrade the character of a business district when seemingly every other shop is selling basically the same set of products. It can feel a lot like that Lewis Black standup bit about finding a Starbucks across the street from another Starbucks.

ceejayoz 2y ago
Same thing happened with cupcake shops and microbreweries in my area. Now it’s happening with car washes. 75% of them will be out of business in a few years as the people who think “sweet, easy money!” discover it’s less fun than they imagined.
- Suppafly 2y ago
  >Now it’s happening with car washes. Yeah, I don't know what the correct number of car washes is to have, but I swear my city has enough for every car to wash every day with capacity left over.
  - madcow2011 2y ago
    Wait, do you live in my city? Holy cow, I thought it was just us noticing this bizarre trend of carwashes popping up on every street corner...
    - cogman10 2y ago
      A lot of it has to do with taxes. These carwashes are basically just real-estate parking. The formula is simple, buy a plot of land in an area you think will be high demand, plop a carwash on it to reduce taxes for owning that land (maybe pull in a few bucks here and there), wait for the land value to appreciate significantly, sell it for a profit to future development (or another person who thinks the land will further appreciate). End result loads of carwashes doing nothing. Pretty sure it was the same reason mattress stores were everywhere at one point. You just need like 1 person to operate the store so paying their salary is nothing compared to the future appreciation of the land value.

mastax 2y ago

I’m dumbfounded that this seems to have gone completely under the radar. Does being passed by Trump make it immune to the culture war? Does it just feel right to people that weed is loophole-legal, such that it seems totally unremarkable?

lbotos 2y ago
Well, lawmakers are trying to close the loophole https://norml.org/news/2024/05/30/federal-house-committee-approves-amendment-barring-production-of-hemp-derived-intoxicating-products/ https://norml.org/news/2024/05/30/federal-house-committee-ap... May still allow for THC-A but time will tell where it lands.
dtagames 2y ago
People vote with their wallets. It's clear that Americans either want weed or don't care if other people do. This law -- a complete Federal law, tested numerous times and not a loophole -- survives because the public wants the product and this is the way to get it.
- galdosdi 2y ago
  Sigh, it's probably because, for cannabis-naive people, it's far harder to tell if someone is super high than if someone is super drunk. There's not a lot of difference between a high person who's trying not to let on, and someone who's just rather tired or a bit dumb. It's not like with alcohol where past a few drinks it's pretty easy to tell. But that doesn't mean the effects are harmless. Legalization was one thing, but valorization is another. THC potency levels are going through the roof and availability of analogues is too. I feel like there will eventually be problematic societal consequences and a pushback a generation from now, much as happened a few decades after cheap hard liquor distillation was invented, or a few decades after we hit peak tobacco. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beer_Street_and_Gin_Lane https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beer_Street_and_Gin_Lane Also, here's an ad from a century ago selling whiskey, claiming it is a medicinal cure all for any and every condition, much as is common today with cannabis https://tf-cmsv2-smithsonianmag-media.s3.amazonaws.com/filer_public/20/94/2094ec41-60d5-4bae-bb9c-a06335e153d7/too_funny_to_not_clip.jpg https://tf-cmsv2-smithsonianmag-media.s3.amazonaws.com/filer...

nerdix 2y ago

And now all the soccer moms in illegal states are buying delta 9 gummies at CBD stores (and there isn't mass hysteria in the streets) so those states are reluctant to outright ban it. We'll see how long that lasts.

mkatx 2y ago

Just legalize it.. There's so much to say.. Yeah, you can buy thc-a hemp legally in most places, as it's federally legal, and few states restrict it specifically. But.. just a couple notes to keep in mind: This is indeed a grey area, even if it seems explicitly legal. Thc-a, through time, heat, oxygen, etc, WILL degrade into federal illegal THC. So if you buy a jar of thca hemp, the thca will turn into THC over time, and potentially rise above the legal limit of THC percentage. This could mean, in the worse case scenario, that if they confiscate your legally purchased hemp, and test it, then they could charge you for illegal cannabis possession because it has more than the allowed thc, and therefore is not legal hemp. Also, I've asked at hemp stores, and was told no.. But indeed, some growers spray thca liquid crystal and even non-cannabis derived terpenes on their bud. Pretty shady imo.. This market, although a legal victory, is actually a detriment to the industry and legalization as a whole, IMHO.

grecy 2y ago
> Just legalize it.. It feels like the US needs to just make some really basic decisions that would vastly improve the quality of life for hundreds of millions of it's citizens so it can get on with actual important stuff. Legalize weed. Legalize abortion. Fix the severely broken healthcare system. Make education affordable. Bring the quality of life up to par with other OECD countries, then start actually making stuff better - renewable power, cheap and good public transit, fix crumbling infrastructure. So many arguments about petty stuff that should have just been decided and moved on from two decades ago.
- mistermann 2y ago
  Marijuana could even catalyze such initiatives, especially if used strategically. Strategic cultural initiatives aren't exactly our thing here in the west (at the public level anyways), but marijuana could also catalyze changing that!
- RiverCrochet 2y ago
  > It feels like the US needs to just make some really basic decisions that would vastly improve the quality of life for hundreds of millions of it's citizens It already did. If you are of the citizens that have hundreds of millions, you have a quality life.

sharpshadow 2y ago

These edibles are even spreading over here to Europe. I was very conventional in the thinking about their potency potential but now I understand better how it works.

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kortex 2y ago

Yes, but actually no. If the DEA or local LEOs actually wanted to crack down, there is plenty enough wiggle room in the scheduled substances act and all the related add-on laws (esp. Federal Analogue Act), there is enough molecular similarity between the various cannabinoids, and insufficient sensitivity in most chemical tests, plus the tendency of THC-A to decarb (eject a carbon dioxide molecule to give THC) under heating, that these agencies could absolutely give you a hard time and make your life hell for a while. Even if charges didn't stick, you'd still have a bad time and be out thousands in legal feels. What's actually happened is de facto, not de jure, legalization (in effect, but not in law), because of the unpopularity of cannabis prohibition. It's just not worth it in most situations to go after these products at this point. There's still a strong need for actual legalization at this point.

mind-blight 2y ago
Totally depends on the product. The federal farm bill states that hemp products need to be under 0.3% THC to be considered hemp. How high you get depends on the milligrams. So, edibles (gummies, etc) can remain under a 0.3% THC by volume in the product while still having more than 5-10 mg per edible. You're not wrong about people being able to make your life hell, but the edibles absolutely fall under the letter of the law. (The one exception being the concentrate used to name the edible with have a large percent THC until it becomes diluted again)
- deleted 2y ago
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- krsrhe 2y ago
  A gummy isn’t a hemp product. A gummy is a candy infused with a hemp product. The article’s claim about gummies is supported only by shops, not by courts. https://www.fda.gov/news-events/public-health-focus/fda-regulation-cannabis-and-cannabis-derived-products-including-cannabidiol-cbd https://www.fda.gov/news-events/public-health-focus/fda-regu...
  - true_religion 2y ago

say_it_as_it_is 2y ago

no mention in the article of "Type I", "Type II", or "Type III" cannabis indicates that the research wasn't exhaustive the story here is that there was a hemp strain called Franklin that was getting cbd consumers high. it was considered a hot batch of hemp. growers cultivated additional Franklin derivatives and brought out higher THC-A strains. eventually, growers said to hell with Franklin, let's just sell high THC-A, low THC strains. this categories includes a wide variety of retail strains sold for recreational use today so, yeah. you can get real cannabis, no weird stuff, that will get you absolutely lifted and delivered to your house in most of the states where recreational remains illegal. if you're asking why you haven't heard about this, it's because loose lips sink ships. why am i talking about it now? it doesn't matter anymore! check out flowgardens and wnc-cbd

DesiLurker 2y ago

Recently USSC killed the Chevron Doctrine, I wonder how that impacts the powers of DEA to keep scheduling substances w/o court legal battle. I think its time for some big marijuana corporate to pool resources and challenge DEA for their deference in enforcement.

zoklet-enjoyer 2y ago

I keep telling people marijuana is legal and they don't believe me. I'm so tired of explaining it to people.

mannyv 2y ago

Thanks, Trump! Seriously. It's amusing that Trump essentially legalized hemp/CBD.