3 ms·

Lagrange: LAser GRavitational-wave ANtenna at GEo-lunar Lagrange points (2011)

56 points by Bluestein 2y ago

Loughla 2y ago
Well, if the first test launch was supposed to be in 2013, how is this project going?
- ragebol 2y ago
  The LISA project mentioned in the abstract got the go-ahead this January: https://www.esa.int/Science_Exploration/Space_Science/Capturing_the_ripples_of_spacetime_LISA_gets_go-ahead https://www.esa.int/Science_Exploration/Space_Science/Captur...
  - Bluestein 2y ago
    Also, to wit: "“LISA is an endeavour that has never been tried before. Using laser beams over distances of several kilometres, ground-based instrumentation can detect gravitational waves coming from events involving star-sized objects – such as supernova explosions or merging of hyper-dense stars and stellar-mass black holes. To expand the frontier of gravitational studies we must go to space,” explains LISA lead project scientist Nora Lützgendorf." Using three satellites in equilateral formation. The project sounds incredibly cool.-
- _joel 2y ago
  Not long to wait only... well, 2035. A blink of the eye in terms of astronomy build deadlines, I guess.
  - dylan604 2y ago
    As history has shown, there a significant difference between project deadlines mentioned at the start of the project and the actual date of when it's launched. 2035 become 2037 becomes 2040 becomes 2045 very easily
    - _joel 2y ago
      That's true, I'm hopeful innovation in this space increases the speed of delivery but you're probably right.
      - Bluestein 2y ago
        (And, I hate to bring this up but ... AI? I am sure someone somewhere is putting generation to good use. It has to be speeding up deliverables somehow ...)
regularfry 2y ago
In case anyone else was wondering, at today's prices the materials in the test mass would be worth $177,365.77. And you need three of them, so that's $532,097.31.
- tgsovlerkhgsel 2y ago
  I only skimmed the paper but didn't find a clear explanation why AuPt is the best choice of materials. It seems like the surface shape and balance needs to be perfect, density is important, and magnetic susceptance is also somehow relevant? Given the overall cost estimate, material costs are probably not their primary concern though ("LAGRANGE cost is estimated in the medium range of $600M to $1B.") Edit: I completely missed this part, described on the LISA page (similar experiment, someone linked it below) - "shooting laser beams from one spacecraft to the other and then superimposing their signal to determine changes in the masses’ distances down to a few billionths of a millimetre." - so they're pointing laser beams from one spacecraft at one lagrange point to another spacecraft at another lagrange point. That's crazy.
  - regularfry 2y ago
    Unlike gold, platinum is quite stiff. I suspect they're using it because they don't want to have to compensate for the effect of gravity on the shape when it's being machined. At a guess the properties they're going for in the alloy are: - Easy to shape - Very shiny - Won't oxidise in atmosphere prior to launch - Very susceptible to gravity (because dense) - Not susceptible to magnetism (because not ferromagnetic) - Strong enough not to sag under gravity (because Pt) At this precision I have no gut feel as to whether tidal losses might be important, but that might be a factor too. Platinum would help attenuate them, I suspect. Pure gold would be squidgy where AuPt will be (comparatively) springy.
- Bluestein 2y ago
  Inflation, eh? :)
- SideburnsOfDoom 2y ago
  Not the largest cost involved, when there are space launches too.
jessriedel 2y ago
[2011]
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
ChrisArchitect 2y ago
(2011)
netcraft 2y ago
What frequencies would this be sensitive to I wonder?
- omgJustTest 2y ago
  Ask and you shall receive! https://www.nature.com/articles/s42254-021-00303-8/figures/2 https://www.nature.com/articles/s42254-021-00303-8/figures/2
  - netcraft 2y ago
    Thanks! Would we expect this to be sensitive to the same frequencies as LISA?
__lbracket__ 2y ago
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56 points by Bluestein 2y ago

Loughla 2y ago

Well, if the first test launch was supposed to be in 2013, how is this project going?

ragebol 2y ago
The LISA project mentioned in the abstract got the go-ahead this January: https://www.esa.int/Science_Exploration/Space_Science/Capturing_the_ripples_of_spacetime_LISA_gets_go-ahead https://www.esa.int/Science_Exploration/Space_Science/Captur...
- Bluestein 2y ago
  Also, to wit: "“LISA is an endeavour that has never been tried before. Using laser beams over distances of several kilometres, ground-based instrumentation can detect gravitational waves coming from events involving star-sized objects – such as supernova explosions or merging of hyper-dense stars and stellar-mass black holes. To expand the frontier of gravitational studies we must go to space,” explains LISA lead project scientist Nora Lützgendorf." Using three satellites in equilateral formation. The project sounds incredibly cool.-
_joel 2y ago
Not long to wait only... well, 2035. A blink of the eye in terms of astronomy build deadlines, I guess.
- dylan604 2y ago
  As history has shown, there a significant difference between project deadlines mentioned at the start of the project and the actual date of when it's launched. 2035 become 2037 becomes 2040 becomes 2045 very easily
  - _joel 2y ago
    That's true, I'm hopeful innovation in this space increases the speed of delivery but you're probably right.
    - Bluestein 2y ago
      (And, I hate to bring this up but ... AI? I am sure someone somewhere is putting generation to good use. It has to be speeding up deliverables somehow ...)

regularfry 2y ago

In case anyone else was wondering, at today's prices the materials in the test mass would be worth $177,365.77. And you need three of them, so that's $532,097.31.

tgsovlerkhgsel 2y ago
I only skimmed the paper but didn't find a clear explanation why AuPt is the best choice of materials. It seems like the surface shape and balance needs to be perfect, density is important, and magnetic susceptance is also somehow relevant? Given the overall cost estimate, material costs are probably not their primary concern though ("LAGRANGE cost is estimated in the medium range of $600M to $1B.") Edit: I completely missed this part, described on the LISA page (similar experiment, someone linked it below) - "shooting laser beams from one spacecraft to the other and then superimposing their signal to determine changes in the masses’ distances down to a few billionths of a millimetre." - so they're pointing laser beams from one spacecraft at one lagrange point to another spacecraft at another lagrange point. That's crazy.
- regularfry 2y ago
  Unlike gold, platinum is quite stiff. I suspect they're using it because they don't want to have to compensate for the effect of gravity on the shape when it's being machined. At a guess the properties they're going for in the alloy are: - Easy to shape - Very shiny - Won't oxidise in atmosphere prior to launch - Very susceptible to gravity (because dense) - Not susceptible to magnetism (because not ferromagnetic) - Strong enough not to sag under gravity (because Pt) At this precision I have no gut feel as to whether tidal losses might be important, but that might be a factor too. Platinum would help attenuate them, I suspect. Pure gold would be squidgy where AuPt will be (comparatively) springy.
Bluestein 2y ago
Inflation, eh? :)
SideburnsOfDoom 2y ago
Not the largest cost involved, when there are space launches too.

jessriedel 2y ago

[2011]

deleted 2y ago

[deleted]

ChrisArchitect 2y ago

(2011)

netcraft 2y ago

What frequencies would this be sensitive to I wonder?

omgJustTest 2y ago
Ask and you shall receive! https://www.nature.com/articles/s42254-021-00303-8/figures/2 https://www.nature.com/articles/s42254-021-00303-8/figures/2
- netcraft 2y ago
  Thanks! Would we expect this to be sensitive to the same frequencies as LISA?

__lbracket__ 2y ago

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