I know this is hard to accept for people enthusiastic about a language X (Forth/Lisp/Haskell/..) that hasn’t entered the mainstream despite years of salesmanshi

I know this is hard to accept for people enthusiastic about a language X (Forth/Lisp/Haskell/..) that hasn’t entered the mainstream despite years of salesmanship and promoting from X people: There is a reason why it hasn’t happened (obviously). It might not be for reasons X people agree with or value. However those reasons are important and valuable enough for non-X enthusiasts to bounce off X. And to make matters worse, the typical reaction from X enthusiasts is to then claim that non-X developers are not smart enough to “get it” or that somehow people using X are smarter than non-X developers. Claims that are so obviously ridiculous that it makes non-X people bounce even harder off the X community. I personally love learning new languages. And have written compilers for a few of my own. However that’s all fun and games. Not something I would use in anger for my day job where I have to work in a team and deliver highly complex software for large corporation that relies on my code to run their business. However having said all that, Forth is really cool and fun to play with. I love minimum languages! Lisp is another fun one. Or the lambda calculus. All great fun languages!