4 ms·

Alright, I had previously been lazy but here's a proper response. I'm confused because to me, everything you have posted backs up the idea that these things ar

by throwaway22032 2y ago

Alright, I had previously been lazy but here's a proper response. I'm confused because to me, everything you have posted backs up the idea that these things are in fact actions and not luck based. Country of residence is not luck based, it's either pre-determined or chosen by parents. 27% self made is huge, I would have expected it to be lower. Parental income having an effect on children's is also not an example of luck. If I work hard so that my children do well, that is not luck based. Genes influence success, so choose good genes. 43% of marriages failing simply shows that many people don't take it as seriously as they used to due to things like no fault divorce. So choose well. Your partner, at least the type of person they are, should not be luck based. Your marriage definitely should not feel like a 4 in 10 dice roll, if it does you have really messed up. I think you and I (really, me and most left wing media) have a different definition of luck. Luck is rolling a die and getting a number, these things are more like causative factors. But still, there exist plenty of people who have been born into adversity and study and work hard, network and press the right buttons. That isn't luck, a lottery win is luck. I dunno. It all just feels like a way to absolve one's self from responsibility to me. I did the washing up yesterday, so today I don't have to do it. Is today me lucky that yesterday me did it? Only in the colloquial sense.

abenga 2y ago
Like you said, you have a different definition of luck. Others seem to say "factors that you did not choose, and do not have the ability to change" are luck. > Country of residence is not luck based, it's either pre-determined or chosen by parents. So you have very little to do with it; you can probably choose this after you finish school, but this is dependent on the place you would like to emigrate to letting you in, thus it's mostly not up to you. > Parental income having an effect on children's is also not an example of luck. If I work hard so that my children do well, that is not luck based. If I get the resources to do well because my parents worked hard, that is really not something I choose, so it's "luck". > Genes influence success, so choose good genes. One can hardly choose their own genes, can they? > But still, there exist plenty of people who have been born into adversity and study and work hard, network and press the right buttons. This is true. They would have had an easier time and achieved more if they did not have to dig out of the basement first before building up. Nobody is saying that you cannot be smart and diligent enough to change your lot in life, we are just saying it is hard, getting harder every day, and it should not be.
- throwaway22032 2y ago
  I just think this is a basic logical error. 39 year old me built a shed. 40 year old me then has a shed. 40 year old me did not influence or choose 39 year old me. But 40 year old me does not have a shed due to luck. It was causative. Your parents and your past decisions are not luck based. If you want to call that luck, then you need a different word for actual luck such as chance encounters, lottery wins, unexpected windfalls etc, because otherwise we are just misinterpreting each other.
  - abenga 2y ago
    If you didn't choose it, do it, and cannot change it, it's not up to you. Whatever parents n-1 year old you had, or nationality they had, are the same ones n year old you have. If they are abusive, or in war, you are screwed. Build a shed or not. Of course there are things you can do to improve your and your children's lives (and you should), but there are irreversible handicaps you can have through no choice or action of yours.
  - AnimalMuppet 2y ago
    Define "luck". That's what this whole disagreement hinges on. You're using a different definition of luck. Sure, I reap the fruits of my past decisions, like the shed. More to the point, I reap the fruits of my parents' decisions. Is that luck? It's not luck from the perspective of actions having consequences, and parents doing things that help their children. It is luck from the perspective of "you didn't pick your parents", or from the "if you were going to be born to someone random, where and when would you want to be born?" perspective. So you and abenga are saying "yes it is!" "no it's not" about the same set of facts, because you're running different definitions of what is or is not luck. Arguments about the definitions of words are really uninteresting. What you and abenga are saying boils down to "yes, actions have consequences, and better actions lead to better consequences, both for yourself and your descendents, but no, you didn't select the parents, country, or time you were born to". Apart from the definition of "luck", do either of you actually disagree with either side of that? If so, with what part, and why? And, if you do agree with it, what conclusions do you draw?

abenga 2y ago

Like you said, you have a different definition of luck. Others seem to say "factors that you did not choose, and do not have the ability to change" are luck. > Country of residence is not luck based, it's either pre-determined or chosen by parents. So you have very little to do with it; you can probably choose this after you finish school, but this is dependent on the place you would like to emigrate to letting you in, thus it's mostly not up to you. > Parental income having an effect on children's is also not an example of luck. If I work hard so that my children do well, that is not luck based. If I get the resources to do well because my parents worked hard, that is really not something I choose, so it's "luck". > Genes influence success, so choose good genes. One can hardly choose their own genes, can they? > But still, there exist plenty of people who have been born into adversity and study and work hard, network and press the right buttons. This is true. They would have had an easier time and achieved more if they did not have to dig out of the basement first before building up. Nobody is saying that you cannot be smart and diligent enough to change your lot in life, we are just saying it is hard, getting harder every day, and it should not be.

throwaway22032 2y ago
I just think this is a basic logical error. 39 year old me built a shed. 40 year old me then has a shed. 40 year old me did not influence or choose 39 year old me. But 40 year old me does not have a shed due to luck. It was causative. Your parents and your past decisions are not luck based. If you want to call that luck, then you need a different word for actual luck such as chance encounters, lottery wins, unexpected windfalls etc, because otherwise we are just misinterpreting each other.
- abenga 2y ago
  If you didn't choose it, do it, and cannot change it, it's not up to you. Whatever parents n-1 year old you had, or nationality they had, are the same ones n year old you have. If they are abusive, or in war, you are screwed. Build a shed or not. Of course there are things you can do to improve your and your children's lives (and you should), but there are irreversible handicaps you can have through no choice or action of yours.
- AnimalMuppet 2y ago
  Define "luck". That's what this whole disagreement hinges on. You're using a different definition of luck. Sure, I reap the fruits of my past decisions, like the shed. More to the point, I reap the fruits of my parents' decisions. Is that luck? It's not luck from the perspective of actions having consequences, and parents doing things that help their children. It is luck from the perspective of "you didn't pick your parents", or from the "if you were going to be born to someone random, where and when would you want to be born?" perspective. So you and abenga are saying "yes it is!" "no it's not" about the same set of facts, because you're running different definitions of what is or is not luck. Arguments about the definitions of words are really uninteresting. What you and abenga are saying boils down to "yes, actions have consequences, and better actions lead to better consequences, both for yourself and your descendents, but no, you didn't select the parents, country, or time you were born to". Apart from the definition of "luck", do either of you actually disagree with either side of that? If so, with what part, and why? And, if you do agree with it, what conclusions do you draw?