3 ms·

> just as easy Citation needed. The social context matters. Alcohol and caffeine are not a wise combination. Socially, consuming both in parallel isn't common

by lukev 2y ago

> just as easy Citation needed. The social context matters. Alcohol and caffeine are not a wise combination. Socially, consuming both in parallel isn't common (Red Bull excepted, I suppose, but that was exactly the target market and inspiration for these as well.) The amounts are also deceptive from a cultural standpoint. Most people are not expecting a tall can to contain _nearly the same alcohol as a full bottle of wine_. It's the same reason we don't sell neat whisky in 12oz cans. Yes, people can choose how they imbibe, but product design does practically matter.

dylan604 2y ago
> Alcohol and caffeine are not a wise combination. Yet, what does every single person that's trying to sober up ask for or have suggested to them? Coffee. One of my favorite movie scenes is from "Flight - 2012" with Denzel and John Goodman trying to make Denzel's character "right". I love it for that fact that they don't try to call it "sober him up", but just to get him balanced. That's all the caffeine in the coffee is trying to do, yet people insist on saying "sober up"
- Terr_ 2y ago
  The scary part of these "look towards caffeine for an answer" messages it that drunks taking caffeine will feel like they aren't impaired... but still fail at driving tests, etc. A charitable interpretation of these media-scenes it that one character is trying to help another disguise outward signals of their problem, while too many viewers misinterpret it as an actual cure. (Especially when the protagonist has plot-armor against failure.)
Zak 2y ago
I suppose I don't have evidence for the idea that it's as easy to drink four shots of liquor as a can of Fourloko. It's certainly less volume of liquid. > Socially, consuming both [alcohol and caffeine] in parallel isn't common Caffè corretto, Buckfast Tonic Wine, and Irish Coffee are all over a century old. > Most people are not expecting a tall can to contain _nearly the same alcohol as a full bottle of wine_. I'm not so sure about that. A 32oz can of 8% malt liquor, for example has about the same amount of alcohol. As for whisky by the can, it would need to be 6.6oz, not 12oz to equal the 2.64oz of pure ethanol in the most extreme product described in the article. I could see a reasonable argument for limiting the total amount of alcohol in containers that can't be reclosed, though that could easily ban traditional champagne bottles.
- loeg 2y ago
  Kahlúa (coffee liquor) also has caffeine, obviously.
  - Zak 2y ago
    It does, but not very much according to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_caffeinated_alcoholic_drinks https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_caffeinated_alcoholic_...
    - loeg 2y ago
      It's about 1/3 as much as Four Loko (45mg vs 150mg) when you scale up the alcohol to match. (Less, but not insignificant.)
loeg 2y ago
> Most people are not expecting a tall can to contain _nearly the same alcohol as a full bottle of wine_. So like, a full bottle of wine is 25 fl oz and these cans are 22 fl oz. They're nearly the same volume. So we're haggling over a few percent ABV differences and wine already has a range of ABVs. It is not really shocking that they have similar amounts of alcohol. This is also in the same market segment as products like Mad Dog 20/20, which... comes in 22oz cans or 750mL bottles and has 12-18% ABV.

by lukev 2y ago

dylan604 2y ago

> Alcohol and caffeine are not a wise combination. Yet, what does every single person that's trying to sober up ask for or have suggested to them? Coffee. One of my favorite movie scenes is from "Flight - 2012" with Denzel and John Goodman trying to make Denzel's character "right". I love it for that fact that they don't try to call it "sober him up", but just to get him balanced. That's all the caffeine in the coffee is trying to do, yet people insist on saying "sober up"

Terr_ 2y ago
The scary part of these "look towards caffeine for an answer" messages it that drunks taking caffeine will feel like they aren't impaired... but still fail at driving tests, etc. A charitable interpretation of these media-scenes it that one character is trying to help another disguise outward signals of their problem, while too many viewers misinterpret it as an actual cure. (Especially when the protagonist has plot-armor against failure.)

Zak 2y ago

I suppose I don't have evidence for the idea that it's as easy to drink four shots of liquor as a can of Fourloko. It's certainly less volume of liquid. > Socially, consuming both [alcohol and caffeine] in parallel isn't common Caffè corretto, Buckfast Tonic Wine, and Irish Coffee are all over a century old. > Most people are not expecting a tall can to contain _nearly the same alcohol as a full bottle of wine_. I'm not so sure about that. A 32oz can of 8% malt liquor, for example has about the same amount of alcohol. As for whisky by the can, it would need to be 6.6oz, not 12oz to equal the 2.64oz of pure ethanol in the most extreme product described in the article. I could see a reasonable argument for limiting the total amount of alcohol in containers that can't be reclosed, though that could easily ban traditional champagne bottles.

loeg 2y ago
Kahlúa (coffee liquor) also has caffeine, obviously.
- Zak 2y ago
  It does, but not very much according to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_caffeinated_alcoholic_drinks https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_caffeinated_alcoholic_...
  - loeg 2y ago
    It's about 1/3 as much as Four Loko (45mg vs 150mg) when you scale up the alcohol to match. (Less, but not insignificant.)

loeg 2y ago

> Most people are not expecting a tall can to contain _nearly the same alcohol as a full bottle of wine_. So like, a full bottle of wine is 25 fl oz and these cans are 22 fl oz. They're nearly the same volume. So we're haggling over a few percent ABV differences and wine already has a range of ABVs. It is not really shocking that they have similar amounts of alcohol. This is also in the same market segment as products like Mad Dog 20/20, which... comes in 22oz cans or 750mL bottles and has 12-18% ABV.