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Or maybe it's an argument for allowing states to try different economic strategies and compete for business based on outcomes of those strategies. If Californi

by kjksf 2y ago

Or maybe it's an argument for allowing states to try different economic strategies and compete for business based on outcomes of those strategies. If California taxes people and businesses at insane levels, maybe we shouldn't replicate insane level of taxation everywhere else in U.S., on the off chance that it is not, in fact, an optimal level for generating wealth for the people. Maybe Texas and Florida should be allowed to enact competing taxation schemes so that we can see which one is better. And maybe Americans should have a freedom of movement within U.S. without having their private property confiscated by the state when they try to leave. The justification for taxation based on residency is that you use commons like roads and school and police that the government funds so you need to contribute to funding those things. What exactly is justifications for hitting people with more taxes when they try to leave the state?

arrosenberg 2y ago
> If California taxes people and businesses at insane levels, maybe we shouldn't replicate insane level of taxation everywhere else in U.S., on the off chance that it is not, in fact, an optimal level for generating wealth for the people. This is nonsense. California is the strongest state in the union economically, with one of the highest quality of life and income per capita. We have an affordability crisis that is related to the topic at hand - billionaires hoarding wealth and driving up the cost of living - but that's a national problem that California can't solve on it's own. Our taxes pay for the things that enable our success - roads, power, dams, parks, libraries, and all that other good stuff. Meanwhile Floridians can't use their beaches due to red tide and dumping tires in the water. The people of Houston JUST got their power back yesterday a week after a mere Category 1 hurricane. Maybe they should raise some taxes and do something about that so their cities stop losing economic productivity multiple times a year...
- WalterBright 2y ago
  https://www.statsamerica.org/sip/rank_list.aspx?rank_label=pcpi1 https://www.statsamerica.org/sip/rank_list.aspx?rank_label=p...
  - arrosenberg 2y ago
    California is the 4th highest state in income per capita, which supports my statement. Thanks :)
    - WalterBright 2y ago
      Its tax collections are going down despite increasing taxes. https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/QTAXTOTALQTAXCAT3CANO https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/QTAXTOTALQTAXCAT3CANO
      - arrosenberg 2y ago
        That line is trending upward. Collections are down because the economy cooled after Q2 2022 due to the end of zero-percent interest rates. Again, something beyond the control of the state government.
- throwaway7ahgb 2y ago
  Another view: 1) California is so popular because it has beautiful weather and natural resources. A group of monkeys could govern the state into prosperity. 2) California has also had the highest number of power outages amongst all states.
  - arrosenberg 2y ago
    We can stay #1 is conclusively false - we let Ronald Reagan and Pete Wilson run the state and we still haven't fully recovered from the damage. A competent group of monkeys would still need similar tax revenues to what we currently collect to be prosperous.
FrustratedMonky 2y ago
I missed it, I don't see anywhere in this thread where people are being taxed on 'exit' from a state. Nothing is being confiscated. What is happening is that a state increases taxes on the current population, and the rich leave to a cheaper states so they don't have to pay the higher tax. So there is freedom of movement. But this does open a loop whole where they can use up resources, then split. To your argument. I guess it depends on 'fairness'. Sure, the deep south can 'Choose' to lower taxes and have really bad schools so that their un-educated population will be unaware, and un-questioning, of any risks when they to go work for the local chemical company or paper mill. This is a valid choice, lets make our people cannon fodder to lure large chemical companies to our state, (and bonus get some kick backs). But, the kids didn't choose this, they were born into it. (which maybe is why they are also anti-abortion, we can't loose our workforce). There should be some national standards to keep some states from a race to the bottom.
- throwaway7ahgb 2y ago
  The 'State' here is confounded. The State also refers to USA. If you give up citizenship and leave the US, they will tax you on exit. It's ridiculous. I should be able to give up citizenship or move to another country and pay a cent to the US government.
- danaris 2y ago
  Is it a valid choice? It's a choice being made to limit someone else's access to resources and information, after all, including the kind of information that would give them the tools they need to understand how much you're screwing them over.

by kjksf 2y ago

arrosenberg 2y ago

> If California taxes people and businesses at insane levels, maybe we shouldn't replicate insane level of taxation everywhere else in U.S., on the off chance that it is not, in fact, an optimal level for generating wealth for the people. This is nonsense. California is the strongest state in the union economically, with one of the highest quality of life and income per capita. We have an affordability crisis that is related to the topic at hand - billionaires hoarding wealth and driving up the cost of living - but that's a national problem that California can't solve on it's own. Our taxes pay for the things that enable our success - roads, power, dams, parks, libraries, and all that other good stuff. Meanwhile Floridians can't use their beaches due to red tide and dumping tires in the water. The people of Houston JUST got their power back yesterday a week after a mere Category 1 hurricane. Maybe they should raise some taxes and do something about that so their cities stop losing economic productivity multiple times a year...

WalterBright 2y ago
https://www.statsamerica.org/sip/rank_list.aspx?rank_label=pcpi1 https://www.statsamerica.org/sip/rank_list.aspx?rank_label=p...
- arrosenberg 2y ago
  California is the 4th highest state in income per capita, which supports my statement. Thanks :)
  - WalterBright 2y ago
    Its tax collections are going down despite increasing taxes. https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/QTAXTOTALQTAXCAT3CANO https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/QTAXTOTALQTAXCAT3CANO
    - arrosenberg 2y ago
      That line is trending upward. Collections are down because the economy cooled after Q2 2022 due to the end of zero-percent interest rates. Again, something beyond the control of the state government.
throwaway7ahgb 2y ago
Another view: 1) California is so popular because it has beautiful weather and natural resources. A group of monkeys could govern the state into prosperity. 2) California has also had the highest number of power outages amongst all states.
- arrosenberg 2y ago
  We can stay #1 is conclusively false - we let Ronald Reagan and Pete Wilson run the state and we still haven't fully recovered from the damage. A competent group of monkeys would still need similar tax revenues to what we currently collect to be prosperous.

FrustratedMonky 2y ago

I missed it, I don't see anywhere in this thread where people are being taxed on 'exit' from a state. Nothing is being confiscated. What is happening is that a state increases taxes on the current population, and the rich leave to a cheaper states so they don't have to pay the higher tax. So there is freedom of movement. But this does open a loop whole where they can use up resources, then split. To your argument. I guess it depends on 'fairness'. Sure, the deep south can 'Choose' to lower taxes and have really bad schools so that their un-educated population will be unaware, and un-questioning, of any risks when they to go work for the local chemical company or paper mill. This is a valid choice, lets make our people cannon fodder to lure large chemical companies to our state, (and bonus get some kick backs). But, the kids didn't choose this, they were born into it. (which maybe is why they are also anti-abortion, we can't loose our workforce). There should be some national standards to keep some states from a race to the bottom.

throwaway7ahgb 2y ago
The 'State' here is confounded. The State also refers to USA. If you give up citizenship and leave the US, they will tax you on exit. It's ridiculous. I should be able to give up citizenship or move to another country and pay a cent to the US government.
danaris 2y ago
Is it a valid choice? It's a choice being made to limit someone else's access to resources and information, after all, including the kind of information that would give them the tools they need to understand how much you're screwing them over.