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I make $300K/year. I’ll leave when I’m ready to retire. And if I’m lucky enough to get laid off (around retirement time), that would be a huge windfall to move

I make $300K/year. I’ll leave when I’m ready to retire. And if I’m lucky enough to get laid off (around retirement time), that would be a huge windfall to move me toward retirement. Programmers planning to work after 50 are fools.

gambiting 2y ago
You're in like, 0.1% of programmers financially. I know living in certain bubbles it feels like everyone makes that kind of money, but it's absolutely not. It's like a lottery winner telling people that if they plan to work over 50 they are fools.
- damezumari 2y ago
  By freelancing you can save nice nest egg in most places. I did that for 11 years in Europe and now I work because I want to, not because I must. Disclaimer: not consulting anymore, I moved back to startup grind once more because I feel more connected to the work than what you do as a consultant.
  - tra3 2y ago
    Freelancing is another bubble I think. I don’t think most developers have the skills necessary to freelance and/or most enterprises are not setup to work with freelancers.
  - 01HNNWZ0MV43FF 2y ago
    I don't feel like being my own boss. Shrug emoji
- geraldwhen 2y ago
  Even if you make half that, which is a common offer all over America, you can retire early.
  - gambiting 2y ago
    Americans are their own little bubble again - I'd wager that most of the world's programmers don't live in US. Globally your average programmer will be someone writing utterly boring code making same salary as a teacher, maybe slightly above that if lucky. Happy to be proven wrong, but the whole "If you aren't making 6 figures as a programmer you failed at life" meme needs to go away - it's a tiny tiny sliver of all programmers that actually manage to achieve that.
  - jltsiren 2y ago
    Retiring early is more about expenses than income. If you can't retire early with $100k income, you probably can't do it with $300k either. Most people can't do it, because their expenses grow to match their income. They want bigger and better everything, and they always find new "mandatory" expenses. Especially if they have kids.
    - dgfitz 2y ago
      My spouse and I make just a touch over the GP, combined of course. Our mortgage is 1.3k/month, and our daycare costs are 3k/month. In a year darcaye goes down by half, and 2 years after that we’re going to have money coming out our ears. I am fortunate my spouse was on board with this plan, which was mine. I’m 38, spouse is 36, for reference. Assuming we have college saved for, I don’t want to work a day past 55 if I can manage it.
      - ghaff 2y ago
        I probably dragged things out a year or three past where I prudently could have. Not sure if I made the right call or not. COVID messed up a lot of things (and obviously sadly killed a lot of people) and I might have made different decisions on a more normal timeline.
    - EVa5I7bHFq9mnYK 2y ago
      With age, your ability to spend money greatly diminishes. Even driving to expensive restaurants is tiresome. The need to impress other people goes away, and rocking chair on the porch doesn't cost much. I'm struggling to spend 1/5 of my investment income. And the kids have forbidden me from giving them more money because they want to 'make it themselves'.
- threadweaver34 2y ago
  I'm sure it's my FAANG bias, but 0.1%? I would have guessed 5%.
whoknowsidont 2y ago
Programmers haven't always made this much.
- geraldwhen 2y ago
  But they have, plus or minus 40% adjusted for inflation. Soul sucking corporate jobs have always paid well.
  - whoknowsidont 2y ago
    There are way, way, way more jobs that make 300k+ in our industry than there ever have been. It's not that these jobs have never existed, it's that they are in greater quantities.
  - jjtheblunt 2y ago
    40% is a big fraction
- YZF 2y ago
  During the .com boom (1990's) an intermediate programmer would easily command $100k USD/year in salary. Many made millions on stocks. Later how many programmer millionaires did the big tech companies make? 10's of thousands? 25 years ago. Adjusted to today that's ~190k USD in salary. Add equity, bonus, ESPP etc. There's ups and downs but I think there are lots of US software jobs that pay this today.
  - ghaff 2y ago
    And a lot of those programmers in the .com boom ended up with stock that was worth zilch and a ton of people ended up leaving the industry in the 2001 or so period. I was incredibly luck to get laid off a couple weeks after 9/11 and to get another tech-adjacent job about a month later based on a lunch I had with someone I knew a few days after I was laid off. That was not a common experience in that period. (Mind you, that wasn't a great stretch for me in terms of compensation. But a later job made up for it at least by my standards.)
shdh 2y ago
How much do you need to accumulate before you retire? I'm guessing retiring just means working on your own things with enough runway til you drop dead.
- geraldwhen 2y ago
  At my current rate of spend, about $3M-3.5M. (Spending 100k/year) I’m working to bring down the spend rate, but even if I don’t I should be good well before 50. I’m saving/investing about 160k/year, plus or minus. Some of the money saved is pre tax in 401k and some isn’t, so it’s not exactly dollar for dollar equivalent.

gambiting 2y ago

You're in like, 0.1% of programmers financially. I know living in certain bubbles it feels like everyone makes that kind of money, but it's absolutely not. It's like a lottery winner telling people that if they plan to work over 50 they are fools.

damezumari 2y ago
By freelancing you can save nice nest egg in most places. I did that for 11 years in Europe and now I work because I want to, not because I must. Disclaimer: not consulting anymore, I moved back to startup grind once more because I feel more connected to the work than what you do as a consultant.
- tra3 2y ago
  Freelancing is another bubble I think. I don’t think most developers have the skills necessary to freelance and/or most enterprises are not setup to work with freelancers.
- 01HNNWZ0MV43FF 2y ago
  I don't feel like being my own boss. Shrug emoji
geraldwhen 2y ago
Even if you make half that, which is a common offer all over America, you can retire early.
- gambiting 2y ago
  Americans are their own little bubble again - I'd wager that most of the world's programmers don't live in US. Globally your average programmer will be someone writing utterly boring code making same salary as a teacher, maybe slightly above that if lucky. Happy to be proven wrong, but the whole "If you aren't making 6 figures as a programmer you failed at life" meme needs to go away - it's a tiny tiny sliver of all programmers that actually manage to achieve that.
- jltsiren 2y ago
  Retiring early is more about expenses than income. If you can't retire early with $100k income, you probably can't do it with $300k either. Most people can't do it, because their expenses grow to match their income. They want bigger and better everything, and they always find new "mandatory" expenses. Especially if they have kids.
  - dgfitz 2y ago
    My spouse and I make just a touch over the GP, combined of course. Our mortgage is 1.3k/month, and our daycare costs are 3k/month. In a year darcaye goes down by half, and 2 years after that we’re going to have money coming out our ears. I am fortunate my spouse was on board with this plan, which was mine. I’m 38, spouse is 36, for reference. Assuming we have college saved for, I don’t want to work a day past 55 if I can manage it.
    - ghaff 2y ago
      I probably dragged things out a year or three past where I prudently could have. Not sure if I made the right call or not. COVID messed up a lot of things (and obviously sadly killed a lot of people) and I might have made different decisions on a more normal timeline.
  - EVa5I7bHFq9mnYK 2y ago
    With age, your ability to spend money greatly diminishes. Even driving to expensive restaurants is tiresome. The need to impress other people goes away, and rocking chair on the porch doesn't cost much. I'm struggling to spend 1/5 of my investment income. And the kids have forbidden me from giving them more money because they want to 'make it themselves'.
threadweaver34 2y ago
I'm sure it's my FAANG bias, but 0.1%? I would have guessed 5%.

whoknowsidont 2y ago

Programmers haven't always made this much.

geraldwhen 2y ago
But they have, plus or minus 40% adjusted for inflation. Soul sucking corporate jobs have always paid well.
- whoknowsidont 2y ago
  There are way, way, way more jobs that make 300k+ in our industry than there ever have been. It's not that these jobs have never existed, it's that they are in greater quantities.
- jjtheblunt 2y ago
  40% is a big fraction
YZF 2y ago
During the .com boom (1990's) an intermediate programmer would easily command $100k USD/year in salary. Many made millions on stocks. Later how many programmer millionaires did the big tech companies make? 10's of thousands? 25 years ago. Adjusted to today that's ~190k USD in salary. Add equity, bonus, ESPP etc. There's ups and downs but I think there are lots of US software jobs that pay this today.
- ghaff 2y ago
  And a lot of those programmers in the .com boom ended up with stock that was worth zilch and a ton of people ended up leaving the industry in the 2001 or so period. I was incredibly luck to get laid off a couple weeks after 9/11 and to get another tech-adjacent job about a month later based on a lunch I had with someone I knew a few days after I was laid off. That was not a common experience in that period. (Mind you, that wasn't a great stretch for me in terms of compensation. But a later job made up for it at least by my standards.)

shdh 2y ago

How much do you need to accumulate before you retire? I'm guessing retiring just means working on your own things with enough runway til you drop dead.

geraldwhen 2y ago
At my current rate of spend, about $3M-3.5M. (Spending 100k/year) I’m working to bring down the spend rate, but even if I don’t I should be good well before 50. I’m saving/investing about 160k/year, plus or minus. Some of the money saved is pre tax in 401k and some isn’t, so it’s not exactly dollar for dollar equivalent.