5 ms·

> Microsoft is so rudderless and ill-directed now, and Apple is so large and in charge Uhh, are you joking? In the past few years, Microsoft has shown the most

> Microsoft is so rudderless and ill-directed now, and Apple is so large and in charge Uhh, are you joking? In the past few years, Microsoft has shown the most direction in 2 decades. Windows, Windows Phone, and Xbox are all converging on the Metro UI (which is a true breath of fresh air), and Microsoft has finally stopped allowing big business to hold back innovation on Windows. Windows 8 dumps the Start Menu, and on ARM, you won't even be able to install any traditional "Windows" software - everything will have to be in Metro. Windows 8 tablets are going to be usable for actual productivity, rather than the consumption-focused nature of the iPad. Tablets that can convert into laptops and vice versa are going to become popular in the corporate world in a way that iPads never will, due to their lack of native support for Office. OTOH, there are a lot of people that have grown tired of iOS. It's been out for 5 years now, and little true innovation has taken place since the release of the original iPhone. Upgrades to the iPhone have mostly consisted of adding features that should have been present all along, such as a proper notifications system (which still has problems) and support for 3rd party apps (which should have been present from the beginning). You still can't have widgets on the home screen, and the chance of Apple adding some kind of split-screen view, like you can get in Metro, is extremely slim. As for OS X, it's an absolute nightmare. The window manager is horrific, and things are only going to get worse as Apple starts restricting the installation of software from non-approved sources, all in the name of a more "beautiful" experience.

huggyface 14y ago
I have no interest in such a discussion in this thread, but no, clearly I'm not joking and that rhetorical intro has no place on HN. Microsoft is a disaster currently, their navigation being "react to where Apple was two years ago". It is telling that every Microsoft defense extrapolates some fantastic future of what will be in the world of Microsoft, never using what actually is. But yes, I'm sure your imagination of a Windows 8 tablet is vastly superior to an actual real-world iPad.
- w1ntermute 14y ago
  > Microsoft is a walking disaster currently. The problem is perspective. The types of people that spend time on HN don't spend time in the real world, where the current state of affairs is very different from what we think it is. Apple gets a lot of hype, and no doubt the iPhone is very successful (because it was a new type of product), but the iPad is no more than than a glorified toy. Once Windows 8 tablets are released and become commonplace, the iPad will stand no chance. The ability to use the same device for casual consumption and for productivity cannot be understated. Try getting out of San Fran for a few days, and you'll start to understand what I'm talking about. There was a similar issue with Android a few years ago, but it seems even the most hardcore iOS fanboys (such as Marco Arment) have finally gotten on the Android train. And don't forget about the TV. The iTV simply will not sell, because people are not going to throw out their existing TVs just so they can get the latest shiny toy from Cupertino. OTOH, MS has huge market- and mind-share in the form of the Xbox 360 (which has been the best-selling console for more than a year). You can already watch Netflix and HBO GO on it, and Amazon Instant support has just been added. Kinect has proven extremely successful, and with Project Glass, all kinds of new mashups are going to become realizable. > I'm sure your imagination of a Windows 8 tablet is vastly superior to an actual real-world iPad. Have you been living under a rock? Windows 8 is coming out this October. Several consumer previews have already been released, and hardware has been demoed. Windows 8 tablets are much more of a real entity than you seem to think.
  - knotty66 14y ago
    Good trolling, almost got me.
  - lazerwalker 14y ago
    > And don't forget about the TV. The iTV simply will not sell, because people are not going to throw out their existing TVs just so they can get the latest shiny toy from Cupertino. There isn't any value to be had in arguing that Apple has designed a terrible product that has no reason to exist when it does not, in fact, exist. When and if Apple releases a TV product other than the current Apple TV, I'm sure it will be fascinating to see what form it takes and whether or not it manages to capture any meaningful marketshare. Until then, you're needlessly attacking a strawman based purely on rumors and hearsay.
- mtrimpe 14y ago
  Over the past 10 or so years Microsoft has been a behemoth moving glacially on whatever inertia it had left. Recently, it seems like the behemoth is starting to regain control of itself and is demonstrating independent movement. Sure; they're nowhere near being as focused purposeful as Apple is, but you can no longer say they are truly stuck in their ways. Whether that will translate into something tangible is another question, but it's hard to deny that something fundamental isn't changing at Microsoft. Heck, I can't even honestly diss people's Windows mobile phones anymore, and that's nothing to sneeze at.
  - huggyface 14y ago
    Over the past 10 or so years Microsoft has been a behemoth moving glacially on whatever inertia it had left They completely overhauled Office. They've built wholesale online experiences, cloud services, and have purchased and entered new markets. They took the gaming market and owned it. They continued to make incredible progress with their development tools and runtimes/platforms. The only difference this time is that they're risking it all because they're so afraid of Apple. They are essentially betting both their gaming and desktop experiences to desperately try to claw back in the smartphone industries. It is an incredible gambit that I think will prove to be a profound failure, but I think it's incorrect to see that as progress, any more than a salaryman betting it all on Red.
    - archangel_one 14y ago
      > They completely overhauled Office Overhauling the Office UI is pretty much inertia; they seem to keep fiddling with it and honestly I think I'd prefer that they just left it alone. >They took the gaming market and owned it. Xbox360 is a distant second to Wii and only a nose ahead of PS3 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Console_wars#Worldwide_sales_figures_6 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Console_wars#Worldwide_sales_fi...). While it's certainly done better than its predecessor, I think describing it as "owning" is a bit of an exaggeration.

huggyface 14y ago

I have no interest in such a discussion in this thread, but no, clearly I'm not joking and that rhetorical intro has no place on HN. Microsoft is a disaster currently, their navigation being "react to where Apple was two years ago". It is telling that every Microsoft defense extrapolates some fantastic future of what will be in the world of Microsoft, never using what actually is. But yes, I'm sure your imagination of a Windows 8 tablet is vastly superior to an actual real-world iPad.

w1ntermute 14y ago
> Microsoft is a walking disaster currently. The problem is perspective. The types of people that spend time on HN don't spend time in the real world, where the current state of affairs is very different from what we think it is. Apple gets a lot of hype, and no doubt the iPhone is very successful (because it was a new type of product), but the iPad is no more than than a glorified toy. Once Windows 8 tablets are released and become commonplace, the iPad will stand no chance. The ability to use the same device for casual consumption and for productivity cannot be understated. Try getting out of San Fran for a few days, and you'll start to understand what I'm talking about. There was a similar issue with Android a few years ago, but it seems even the most hardcore iOS fanboys (such as Marco Arment) have finally gotten on the Android train. And don't forget about the TV. The iTV simply will not sell, because people are not going to throw out their existing TVs just so they can get the latest shiny toy from Cupertino. OTOH, MS has huge market- and mind-share in the form of the Xbox 360 (which has been the best-selling console for more than a year). You can already watch Netflix and HBO GO on it, and Amazon Instant support has just been added. Kinect has proven extremely successful, and with Project Glass, all kinds of new mashups are going to become realizable. > I'm sure your imagination of a Windows 8 tablet is vastly superior to an actual real-world iPad. Have you been living under a rock? Windows 8 is coming out this October. Several consumer previews have already been released, and hardware has been demoed. Windows 8 tablets are much more of a real entity than you seem to think.
- knotty66 14y ago
  Good trolling, almost got me.
- lazerwalker 14y ago
  > And don't forget about the TV. The iTV simply will not sell, because people are not going to throw out their existing TVs just so they can get the latest shiny toy from Cupertino. There isn't any value to be had in arguing that Apple has designed a terrible product that has no reason to exist when it does not, in fact, exist. When and if Apple releases a TV product other than the current Apple TV, I'm sure it will be fascinating to see what form it takes and whether or not it manages to capture any meaningful marketshare. Until then, you're needlessly attacking a strawman based purely on rumors and hearsay.
mtrimpe 14y ago
Over the past 10 or so years Microsoft has been a behemoth moving glacially on whatever inertia it had left. Recently, it seems like the behemoth is starting to regain control of itself and is demonstrating independent movement. Sure; they're nowhere near being as focused purposeful as Apple is, but you can no longer say they are truly stuck in their ways. Whether that will translate into something tangible is another question, but it's hard to deny that something fundamental isn't changing at Microsoft. Heck, I can't even honestly diss people's Windows mobile phones anymore, and that's nothing to sneeze at.
- huggyface 14y ago
  Over the past 10 or so years Microsoft has been a behemoth moving glacially on whatever inertia it had left They completely overhauled Office. They've built wholesale online experiences, cloud services, and have purchased and entered new markets. They took the gaming market and owned it. They continued to make incredible progress with their development tools and runtimes/platforms. The only difference this time is that they're risking it all because they're so afraid of Apple. They are essentially betting both their gaming and desktop experiences to desperately try to claw back in the smartphone industries. It is an incredible gambit that I think will prove to be a profound failure, but I think it's incorrect to see that as progress, any more than a salaryman betting it all on Red.
  - archangel_one 14y ago
    > They completely overhauled Office Overhauling the Office UI is pretty much inertia; they seem to keep fiddling with it and honestly I think I'd prefer that they just left it alone. >They took the gaming market and owned it. Xbox360 is a distant second to Wii and only a nose ahead of PS3 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Console_wars#Worldwide_sales_figures_6 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Console_wars#Worldwide_sales_fi...). While it's certainly done better than its predecessor, I think describing it as "owning" is a bit of an exaggeration.