12 ms·

Just promise us that when you do, you won't become a rabid fanboy yourself. By all rights I should be the biggest fanboy ever. All my computers are Macs. I h

Just promise us that when you do, you won't become a rabid fanboy yourself. By all rights I should be the biggest fanboy ever. All my computers are Macs. I have an Apple TV. I stood in line to buy the first iPhone on launch day and have owned nothing but iPhones since. I have an iPad. I insist on using Apple services like iTunes so everything "just works" with all my Apple devices. I even converted my whole family from PCs to Macs and, yes, my "family tech support" calls have dropped. But I'm not what you would call a "fanboy". If someone asks why I like Apple products, I try to give rational reasons but I admit from the start that I'm biased and just "like them", plus I "think they're cool". I never sneer at PC users or people with Android phones. I don't make lame jokes about "Winblows" and such. I guess my point is it's possible to become a total convert and still not annoy the heck out of everyone around you. I'm not saying you don't know that, just that you should monitor yourself. Once you become loyal to a brand (Apple, BMW, B&W loudspeakers, whatever) it's sometimes difficult to tell the difference between being a proud evangelist and an annoying cultist. Luckily, I had some friends who helped me whenever I veered too far in the latter direction. :)

calinet6 14y ago
IMHO Apple fanboyism is not a problem in the hacker community. It's a well-built solid metal portable development workstation. With BSD UNIX. And a pretty layer on top. Among programmers, I never need to explain why we would buy these things. It's outside the programming groups that the conversation gets hostile. I find most programmers avoid this completely, knowing that they're simply using the best tool available for the job, and ignoring the hype, criticism, and fanboyism. Props, hackers, keep it up.
- jurre 14y ago
  I study computer science and the amount of banter I get from fellow students for using a macbook air is unbelievable. Other people usually seem quite ok with it, although self proclaimed power users usually seem to have an opinion about it.
  - drivebyacct2 14y ago
    This is just rich to me. Yes, enjoy your Visual Studio and broken command line, I'll be using lightweight tools and an actual POSIX command line. *edit: Wow, -10? Sorry, I was just sharing my experience of being mocked by people who proudly brag about their Windows 7 machine and are barely proficient at .NET programming who give me a hard time because "Macs are lame and Windows is for geeks". Didn't know there were so many fucking yuppie Windows people to be so defensive. Jesus. Literally, 10 people downvoted this. Stay classy. (And the GP backed up what I said anyway, jerks)
    - pook1e 14y ago
      Just because they don't use OS X doesn't mean they use Windows. As a Computer Science student I'm willing to bet that most of those that "banter" on the parent use Linux.
      - jurre 14y ago
        No, they actually all use windows!
        rbanffy 14y ago
        Microsoft has a very strong technology evangelizing program targeted at upper education. They almost pay colleges to offer Windows-centric courses and Windows-only labs. <tongue-in-cheek> The Linux users generally consider OSX a nice Linux-like OS that lacks a decent package manager ;-) Much like Microsoft, the hardware is great. </tongue-in-cheek> Disclaimer: I am mostly a Linux user who also uses Macs for certain tasks.
        jurre 14y ago
        Hey we have homebrew nowadays :P And microsoft is actually really generous towards students, I can get basically any software except for office for free.
- neutronicus 14y ago
  I wish people would refrain from using the word "fanboy" on HN.
  - calinet6 14y ago
    I wish people would refrain from using the word "rockstar" too, but whatdyagonnado?
  - larrys 14y ago
    "refrain from using the word "fanboy" on HN" It's a jealousy tick. I remember the same behavior in high school (which was a long time ago). People would make fun of you for anything you were really obsessive over.
- SiVal 14y ago
  If things keep going the way they're going, Apple fanboyism will become less and less of a problem among hackers. Apple appears to be in a gradual transition process from MacOS computers to iOS "Don't worry, just watch the pretty pictures, and we'll tell you which PAY button to press" devices. Windows, not wanting to be left behind selling computers instead of devices (Yuck! Computers! That's SO 20th century), is making the same transition to Metro. It appears that both of the major computer platform makers have come to the same conclusion: they don't want to make computers that their customers can program for their own purposes; they want to make ever-more-tightly-sealed point-of-sale devices for buying digital products and services from the device maker and its partners. In other words, if you think the sealed iPhone, tethered to giant companies with strict rules about what you may and may not do with it or put on it and its design esthetic of "enjoy the beauty, stop resisting, do exactly as we say, and why not buy something with it, you'll feel better" is your idea of a great "pocket computer" for hackers, then you should be happy about where our computers are going. Otherwise.... I think we hackers are going to be driven to Linux on the desktop over time, which I would have no objection to if only there were an "Apple for Linux" company making the hardware and matching drivers of Apple-level quality. I can live without MacOS, but the hardware is a big deal.
  - tehayj 14y ago
    very well put.
  - tomkarlo 14y ago
    From the sales charts, it seems this is what the customers want, too. For some reason folks like to believe that Apple is somehow "fooling" customers into buying that experience. What if it's simply what non-developers want? Isn't that a simpler explanation?
    - jerf 14y ago
      The objection is that this isn't mutually exclusive. You can provide all the niceties, and make it so that there are still ways in to the simplified UI so that a nine-year-old can set out on their own and learn things about how the machine works. The companies are using this paradigm shift as an excuse to lock us in a box, they are not locking us in a box because the tech or the experience is only available if they do so. They're eating the seed corn, but they don't really care since they won't feel the effect for 15 years or more. I personally don't care much either, unless they manage to fully legislate their locked boxes as the only option... which they are trying to do whenever we aren't looking, by the way, the most recent being with Microsoft locking out other OSes on their ARM boxes.
- charlieok 14y ago
  Also, programmers get annoyed at their machines, even nice well-made ones, for all kinds of specific reasons that most computer users won't. Sure, I like getting a new shiny thing just like anybody else. But it does seem a little less shiny once I've tried to put my employer's dev environment on it and found that Apple's customized version of a common C library broke the build. Or an Oracle dependency we (very unfortunately) have hasn't been upgraded by Oracle in a couple years and crashes on the new OS. The lot of the programmer seems to be that you never get to have your tools "just work".
abc_lisper 14y ago
Exactly. I'm like this. I have all Apple paraphernalia, but I only buy them because they work well and look good. If Roku produces a player that works with all routers, and not crap out on updates, have customer support that can help me, I would use theirs. But it isn't the case and I can't waste my money.
deleted 14y ago
[deleted]

calinet6 14y ago

IMHO Apple fanboyism is not a problem in the hacker community. It's a well-built solid metal portable development workstation. With BSD UNIX. And a pretty layer on top. Among programmers, I never need to explain why we would buy these things. It's outside the programming groups that the conversation gets hostile. I find most programmers avoid this completely, knowing that they're simply using the best tool available for the job, and ignoring the hype, criticism, and fanboyism. Props, hackers, keep it up.

jurre 14y ago
I study computer science and the amount of banter I get from fellow students for using a macbook air is unbelievable. Other people usually seem quite ok with it, although self proclaimed power users usually seem to have an opinion about it.
- drivebyacct2 14y ago
  This is just rich to me. Yes, enjoy your Visual Studio and broken command line, I'll be using lightweight tools and an actual POSIX command line. *edit: Wow, -10? Sorry, I was just sharing my experience of being mocked by people who proudly brag about their Windows 7 machine and are barely proficient at .NET programming who give me a hard time because "Macs are lame and Windows is for geeks". Didn't know there were so many fucking yuppie Windows people to be so defensive. Jesus. Literally, 10 people downvoted this. Stay classy. (And the GP backed up what I said anyway, jerks)
  - pook1e 14y ago
    Just because they don't use OS X doesn't mean they use Windows. As a Computer Science student I'm willing to bet that most of those that "banter" on the parent use Linux.
    - jurre 14y ago
      No, they actually all use windows!
      - rbanffy 14y ago
        Microsoft has a very strong technology evangelizing program targeted at upper education. They almost pay colleges to offer Windows-centric courses and Windows-only labs. <tongue-in-cheek> The Linux users generally consider OSX a nice Linux-like OS that lacks a decent package manager ;-) Much like Microsoft, the hardware is great. </tongue-in-cheek> Disclaimer: I am mostly a Linux user who also uses Macs for certain tasks.
        jurre 14y ago
        Hey we have homebrew nowadays :P And microsoft is actually really generous towards students, I can get basically any software except for office for free.
neutronicus 14y ago
I wish people would refrain from using the word "fanboy" on HN.
- calinet6 14y ago
  I wish people would refrain from using the word "rockstar" too, but whatdyagonnado?
- larrys 14y ago
  "refrain from using the word "fanboy" on HN" It's a jealousy tick. I remember the same behavior in high school (which was a long time ago). People would make fun of you for anything you were really obsessive over.
SiVal 14y ago
If things keep going the way they're going, Apple fanboyism will become less and less of a problem among hackers. Apple appears to be in a gradual transition process from MacOS computers to iOS "Don't worry, just watch the pretty pictures, and we'll tell you which PAY button to press" devices. Windows, not wanting to be left behind selling computers instead of devices (Yuck! Computers! That's SO 20th century), is making the same transition to Metro. It appears that both of the major computer platform makers have come to the same conclusion: they don't want to make computers that their customers can program for their own purposes; they want to make ever-more-tightly-sealed point-of-sale devices for buying digital products and services from the device maker and its partners. In other words, if you think the sealed iPhone, tethered to giant companies with strict rules about what you may and may not do with it or put on it and its design esthetic of "enjoy the beauty, stop resisting, do exactly as we say, and why not buy something with it, you'll feel better" is your idea of a great "pocket computer" for hackers, then you should be happy about where our computers are going. Otherwise.... I think we hackers are going to be driven to Linux on the desktop over time, which I would have no objection to if only there were an "Apple for Linux" company making the hardware and matching drivers of Apple-level quality. I can live without MacOS, but the hardware is a big deal.
- tehayj 14y ago
  very well put.
- tomkarlo 14y ago
  From the sales charts, it seems this is what the customers want, too. For some reason folks like to believe that Apple is somehow "fooling" customers into buying that experience. What if it's simply what non-developers want? Isn't that a simpler explanation?
  - jerf 14y ago
    The objection is that this isn't mutually exclusive. You can provide all the niceties, and make it so that there are still ways in to the simplified UI so that a nine-year-old can set out on their own and learn things about how the machine works. The companies are using this paradigm shift as an excuse to lock us in a box, they are not locking us in a box because the tech or the experience is only available if they do so. They're eating the seed corn, but they don't really care since they won't feel the effect for 15 years or more. I personally don't care much either, unless they manage to fully legislate their locked boxes as the only option... which they are trying to do whenever we aren't looking, by the way, the most recent being with Microsoft locking out other OSes on their ARM boxes.
charlieok 14y ago
Also, programmers get annoyed at their machines, even nice well-made ones, for all kinds of specific reasons that most computer users won't. Sure, I like getting a new shiny thing just like anybody else. But it does seem a little less shiny once I've tried to put my employer's dev environment on it and found that Apple's customized version of a common C library broke the build. Or an Oracle dependency we (very unfortunately) have hasn't been upgraded by Oracle in a couple years and crashes on the new OS. The lot of the programmer seems to be that you never get to have your tools "just work".

abc_lisper 14y ago

Exactly. I'm like this. I have all Apple paraphernalia, but I only buy them because they work well and look good. If Roku produces a player that works with all routers, and not crap out on updates, have customer support that can help me, I would use theirs. But it isn't the case and I can't waste my money.

deleted 14y ago

[deleted]