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About 130 million adults in the U.S. have low literacy skills (2022)
- b112 2y ago"Literacy" is a ridiculously low metric as per the UN, I've read that a grade 6 reading level easily qualifies. So it's not really a case of "low literacy skills" in terms of offical stats, but that the stats are lowish. But what does one expect? For 100 IQ to be an average, there will be many below that number. The goal is to train all citizens as mich as possible, and literacy stats are to reflect that attempt.
- monkpit 2y ago> This means more than half of Americans between the ages of 16 and 74 (54%) read below the equivalent of a sixth-grade level. It’s like the second sentence in the article.
- b112 2y agoAnd yet missed by many here.
- emseetech 2y agoIQ has to be 55 or below in order for literacy to be unattainable, which is less than 1% of the population. Between 56 and 85 adds difficulties and requires extra education but is not insurmountable. That's about 15% of the population. 130M in the US is over 50% of the adult population. That is not a matter of statistical distribution, that is a matter of policy failure.
- b112 2y agoAnd? As I explained, "literacy" has a specific definition. The median Grade 6 level reading capability is not impressive for an adult. Being literate means you can read stop signs, and warning labels.
- Barrin92 2y ago>But what does one expect? I mean, at least a little bit more humility and respect for knowledge and expertise. One of the prevailing sentiments these days seems to be "do your own research!" which seems to me pretty difficult to square with the fact that the national recommendation for medical guidelines is to write at a 6-7th grade reading level to make sure most people understand the instructions.
- Simon_ORourke 2y agoIf this is hinting at 1-in-3 American adults being somewhat culturally deficient or otherwise intellectually challenged then that feels about right.
- csa 2y ago> If this is hinting at 1-in-3 American adults 130m is about 1-in-2 per 2020 census. Even more frightening, imho.
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- josephh 2y ago[flagged]
- drewcoo 2y ago> It seems that the article is trying to intentionally mislead its readers to think that those 130M adults don't possess literacy skill in any language that they use, while the underlying study only looks at literacy skill in English. Yet the article says: > It's not just people who are racial minorities. It's not just people who speak funny because they're from the South. It literally can be anybody So maybe it's a matter of some readers trying to intentionally mislead themselves and others about what the article says.
- josephh 2y agoExcept that the 130M figure absolutely isn't going to be correct if adjusted for literacy skill of their primary language.
- JumpCrisscross 2y ago> the 130M figure absolutely isn't going to be correct if adjusted for literacy skill of their primary language Half of American adults speak English as a second language? Speaking anecdotally, dual-language learners are more likely to be literate than single-language speakers.
- UberFly 2y agoMany school districts now have policy against praising achievement for fear of being accused of marginalizing underachieving students, so underachievement becomes a safe norm.
- MisterBastahrd 2y agoMany school districts are still feeling the full effects of parents who were "educated" during the "Leave No Child Behind" era.
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- Cthulhu_ 2y agoTBF people who get praised for their achievements too much become insufferable. Or they end up running into a wall later in their education because it's not as easy for them anymore.
- hunglee2 2y agohow does this actually happen, at the classroom level? Are the kids actually going to school or is it a case they show up and basically teacher can't control what's going in the room?
- fvdessen 2y agoI think it's more that people lose the ability to read and write as they stop doing it when they finish school.
- oldpersonintx 2y ago[dead]
- karles 2y agoSocial media. What's the use of "reading" anymore? It's not like it's hard for us outsiders to spot why your general political and social environment in the US is going haywire.
- dan-robertson 2y agoAn earlier discussion of low literacy in North America: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25829959 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25829959
- oldpersonintx 2y ago[dead]
- mbrumlow 2y agoI always wonder what it means to have low literacy. I seem to be able to read, but my spelling has always been bad. Am I low, or just below average? I know I am not stupid, and at least when it comes to software and computers are probably far above average. I always find my self in weird situations working with people who can spell and spot spelling errors so easy, but I am the one explaining how to do something technical or resolve a complex bug in software or how computers / compilers, or computer languages actually work under the hood. So all that to say, what is literacy? And what part of it do you need to be successful?
- Jarwain 2y ago> Literacy is broadly defined as the ability to read and write, but it more accurately encompasses the comprehension, evaluation and utilization of information So I wouldn't stress about your spelling in this context
- Cthulhu_ 2y agoIn the context of this particular finding, the source [0] defines literacy as > [..] as a lack of proficiency on the PIAAC, an internationally validated literacy exam. Adults who score below Level 3 for literacy are not considered proficient and are defined as at least partially illiterate in this study. Adults below or at Level-1 literacy may struggle to understand texts beyond filling out basic forms. Drawing inferences or combining multiple sources of texts is likely too difficult. Adults at Level 2 can read well enough to evaluate product reviews and perform other tasks that require comparisons and simple inferences, but they are unlikely to correctly evaluate the reliability of texts or draw sophisticated inferences. Adults at Level 3 and above are considered fully literate in this study. They can reliably evaluate sources, as well as infer sophisticated meaning and complex ideas from written sources. In other words, it seems like the headline has been sensationalised; if half of the US has a level 3 literacy, I'd say they're not doing too bad at all. [0] https://www.barbarabush.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/09/BBFoundation_GainsFromEradicatingIlliteracy_9_8.pdf https://www.barbarabush.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/09/BBFou...
- riidom 2y ago
- yorwba 2y ago> more than half of Americans between the ages of 16 and 74 (54%) read below the equivalent of a sixth-grade level. This is framed as a bad thing, as if it is somehow self-evident that sixth-graders are intellectually deficient and illiterate. But if you turn it around as "sixth graders read about as well as the median adult," it doesn't sound so bad anymore, does it? In any case, criticism of recent education policies based on the observation that the standards in school are higher than they are for adults is missing the point, unless you want to argue that the standards are too high.
- averageRoyalty 2y agoI assuming "6th grade" is around 12 years old. Do you not think in the next 4 years of learning there should be no improvement?
- yorwba 2y agoOn literacy? No. Math, physics, biology, chemistry, history, foreign languages? Sure.
- saagarjha 2y agoDo you think they should be learning those using the vocabulary and comprehension skills of a 12 year old?
- yorwba 2y agoWhen you learn a new domain, you obviously need to learn the specialized vocabulary for that domain, whether you're 12 or 21. But I'd expect 12-year-olds to have the general vocabulary and comprehension skills to learn this specialized vocabulary from an introductory text explaining it to them.
- beej71 2y ago> But I'd expect 12-year-olds to have the general vocabulary and comprehension skills to learn this specialized vocabulary from an introductory text explaining it to them. According to TFA, though, this isn't happening.
- fvdessen 2y agoI am bewildered by the low literacy ability of a significant amount of the people I hired. People with advanced degrees; can't take notes, can't really read either. Not idiots, but illiterate. How did they end-up there ? Do we now need to test for literacy in interviews ?
- csallen 2y agoHired for what roles?
- fvdessen 2y agoBusiness / Analysts / POs. Programmers as well, although it matters less.
- Jensson 2y agoIf you can write code then you are literate for sure.
- illiac786 2y agoNo, you can have very low skills in English and still be able to code, like many coders in Asia. Hence, it definitely can be the same for native English speakers.
- Jensson 2y agoI assume those coders are literate in their native language, why do you say that is evidence you can code without being literate if you learned to code in English?
- illiac786 2y agoI assumed you thought you had to be literate to write code because it’s in English. I think I disagree twice then. You do not need to be literate (as per the definition of the post), neither in English nor in another language to be able to code, I have seen with my own eyes people who struggle to write a simple email being able to produce code. (Please keep in mind the definition of literacy as per the post)
- jandrewrogers 2y agoThat map of "low literacy" looks like a map of where large volumes of blue collar immigrants live. At a minimum, the presentation seems misleading. It is like noting that a disturbing number of people who own cowboy boots live in Texas. Probably true, but it doesn't imply anything important.
- kleene_op 2y agoYes but it's about 130 millions illiterate adults in a 300 millions population country. It is important.
- pseudo0 2y agoIsn't the obvious solution to require prospective immigrants to demonstrate sufficient English skills prior to immigration? Specific niches like agriculture that do not require advanced language skills can use temporary work visas.
- KingMachiavelli 2y ago> Some of these high county-level percentages stem from high populations of immigrants, whose first language is not English. The PIAAC only assesses English literacy, though its background questionnaire is given in English and Spanish. If you look at the map (and read the article), it's fairly obvious that they are NOT adjusting for non-English first language speakers. This is partly on purpose since it's those demographics that need the most assistance and funding to learn English. However, it's really disappointing that this data is used to make statements and titles regarding people's "literacy" or reading comprehension when it's specifically testing a single language.
- MOARDONGZPLZ 2y agoIt’s a study done by the US Dept of Education. I don’t think it’s bad or even unusual that it tests English (and some Spanish) only. The implication is it is testing useful literacy in the US. After all, being literate in Tagalog isn’t a useful thing in the US, so why call someone who is literate in Tagalog only literate for the US? Maybe I’m misunderstanding your comment.
- madaxe_again 2y agoI’m not certain this is as big an effect as you might imagine. I’m an immigrant in Portugal, I have been here five years - and I am far more literate in Portuguese than a good many of the people I encounter here, who are born and bred Portuguese. Sure, they speak better than me, of course, and it took me a while to realise that many of them could barely read or write - but the educational system in rural Portugal did not, and seemingly still does not, produce people with anything above bare-bones literacy. This isn’t a judgment - purely an observation that literacy is something that translates across language barriers for the literate quite readily, and poor education results in poor literacy - not being foreign.
- dan-robertson 2y agoI didn’t look into the details of the survey described in this article. A large international survey that covers literacy is PIAAC[1]. You can read about their ‘levels’ of literacy in one of their reader’s guides[2]. The survey suggested that 17.6% of adults in the US score at level 1 or below (basic vocabulary, ability to extract a single piece of information in a short text) and 12.8% of US adults score at level 4 or 5. People with low literacy tend to struggle with vocabulary, or large blocks of text, and will be slow readers who can’t skim text. You can find some practical descriptions of low literacy in UX articles like https://uxpamagazine.org/people_who_do_not_read_easily/ https://uxpamagazine.org/people_who_do_not_read_easily/ or https://gds.blog.gov.uk/2016/02/23/writing-content-for-everyone/ https://gds.blog.gov.uk/2016/02/23/writing-content-for-every... [1] https://www.oecd.org/en/about/programmes/survey-of-adult-skills-piaac.html https://www.oecd.org/en/about/programmes/survey-of-adult-ski... [2] See pages 115-116 of https://www.oecd-ilibrary.org/education/the-survey-of-adult-skills_cf22f417-en https://www.oecd-ilibrary.org/education/the-survey-of-adult-...
- jstummbillig 2y agoIn a society that is increasingly less centered around reading, unused skills will atrophy and replaced with other things. It's not like the underlying genomics to execute the entire human spiel are getting better in step with societal change. Something's gotta give. Furthermore, and despite my own inclinations, I have a hard time looking at literacy as an efficient delivery mechanism. In fact, I suspect the amount of time we spent reading for anything other than strictly pleasure will look fairly silly before long (at societal level and a humanity timescale). In part that seems almost deliberate: Most of the "important" writing, to this day (and even though there has been some push back), prides itself in being fairly exclusive. Well, there you go.
- pseudo0 2y agoWhat do you view as more efficient than reading? In my experience, reading information is easily 3-5x faster than audio or video, even when using 1.25x or 1.5x playback.
- jstummbillig 2y agoOn a purely technical level: Nothing so far, but given how obviously slow and important it is, I think interest to find something better is high enough for that to happen soon-ish. On a systemic level, the answer so far is "less reading". Our general tolerance for convoluted writing is waning. Most things we read are not books anymore (even if they are about books) and lately, ChatGPT has been slashing the reading time of a lot of papers for me. Personally I find myself consuming large amounts of audio text, which by itself is not faster, but can be done during walks and runs.
- bogdan-lab 2y agoIn the article they talk so much about funding schools which will improve immigrant literacy. But I think, that funding is not the problem. When you migrate to a new country you just naturally get into a bubble of your nationals. Its much easier to make a connection with other people from your country because of your common experience and culture. Then you just live in this bubble. You are in US, but all your free time you are still talking in your native language with your friends and family. Probably, read news and books in your native language too. So English language just needs to be on the bare minimum to give you a job. Hence low English literacy results.
- viraptor 2y agoWhile it's going to apply to some specific communities: > When you migrate to a new country you just naturally get into a bubble of your nationals. Just keep in mind that's a really bad generalisation. There's different groups migrating for different reasons with/without a family. You don't "naturally" get into any bubble unless you seek one, or have an existing connection to.
- beej71 2y agoThere's also an alienation effect if the native society ostracizes the immigrants. They'll naturally seek a safety bubble.
- bogdan-lab 2y agoWhen I say "naturally" I imagine the situation, when you stand in a "social desert" and there are two people in front of you. They are the same age, the same profession etc. But the first one is from your native country and the second one is local. In order to communicate with the second person you need to use language you are not native in. There is also some cultural/mentality difference, naively you are not sure which topics you should avoid in discussions. Obviously you will feel a lot of pressure, at least in the beginning, speaking with the second person. When there are no such hurdles between you and your person. You can use your language, you know where the social borders are etc. In order to make a connection and support it with the second person you need to overcome those hurdles. They may be not big for you. But my point is that they are there. And if human has a choice they naturally chose the easy past. My point is that if you migrate you rather need to seek (work on) making friends with locals. When, surrounding yourself with people from your country will happen by itself. Of course I do not know what is the situation for everybody. But this is what I see around me.
- teddyX 2y agoFeature not a bug
- sschueller 2y agoThis is frighteningly high when these days even highly educated people fall for propaganda. This would also explain why we still have spam when everyone has heard of the Nigerian Prince scam. It also explains why dark patterns are so popular and why products get dumbed down more and more. Websites look like duplo sets these days.
- kkfx 2y agoEhm, I'm from the EU, being a former globetrotter, living in the EU and... Situation here and in other places of the world it not much different. Yes most adults do know where Tokyo is and where is Central Asia or Perù, but... In substantial literacy terms most have issues reading non-super-dumb articles understanding them, elaborate a not so super-dumb concept in their mind, ... Most adults do not know the bare minimum about the society they live in, oh sure, they tend to know the last gossip, but nothing about politics, bureaucracy, global changes and so on. They have a poor vocabulary, they can't write decent documents and so on.
- kurtoid 2y agoI'd be cautious about drawing too many conclusions from this; this test also involves some computer skill. https://nces.ed.gov/surveys/piaac/measure.asp?section=1&sub_section=3#1_5 https://nces.ed.gov/surveys/piaac/measure.asp?section=1&sub_...
- DueDilligence 2y ago[dead]
- EricRiese 2y agoWhat are the historical trends? The definition of these standards sounds squishy and arbitrary. Print desert? That's like saying there's a transportation crisis because people can't can't afford horses.
- helf 2y ago[dead]