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It's not a simple linear scale of regulations and no regulations. EU is arguably more regulated than California, but the regulations here have more sense to th

It's not a simple linear scale of regulations and no regulations. EU is arguably more regulated than California, but the regulations here have more sense to them, and arguably higher benefit to cost ratio.

roenxi 2y ago
> EU is arguably more regulated than California, but the regulations here have more sense to them, and arguably higher benefit to cost ratio. The last time I checked the EU appeared to be in a full-blown multi-country energy crisis triggered by some of the most stunning displays of regulatory incompetence so far this century. So I would accept that the EU is more regulated but I don't think that is the sort of point that plays well right now. I would be fighting tooth-and-nail to have my country not do what Germany did. The Texas grid, by comparison, looks like a paradise even if it is currently experiencing a week-long outage!
- lazide 2y ago
  The EU also has very high taxes and very high energy costs.
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  - supermatt 2y ago
    The EU also has low taxes and low energy prices depending on which states you are talking about.
    - lazide 2y ago
      Which state has low taxes and low energy prices?
- Jensson 2y ago
  > The last time I checked the EU appeared to be in a full-blown multi-country energy crisis No outage though, the crisis was averted, unlike in Texas where the crisis reliably hits every few years.
- petre 2y ago
  The EU had an energy crisis because Germany was high on Russian gas, along with most of Central Europe. Thankfully the US took care of that. Southern Europe also has few fossil fuel options if Libya and Algeria decide to align themselves with Russia.
- snowpid 2y ago
  "would be fighting tooth-and-nail to have my country not do what Germany did. The Texas grid, by comparison, looks like a paradise even if it is currently experiencing a week-long outage!" Can you clarify such strong words? I've never encountered any power outtage in Germany my whole life and Texas this looks fairly regular.
  - roenxi 2y ago
    Electricity in Germany is somewhere in the region of 3x as expensive as in Texas. I'd prefer to have cheap power and a contingency plan for a week or so of grid outage than live with those sort of prices. I've been keeping an eye on how the situation in Germany seems to be developing [0]. It makes for grim reading. [0] https://ourworldindata.org/energy/country/germany https://ourworldindata.org/energy/country/germany
    - snowpid 2y ago
      Could you clearify what is the "grim reading" in your source? Sure the prices are high in Germany (and this is a problem for industry) but as a private consumers you pay 50 EUR per month instead 16 EUR. Such hell! This is an inconvenience but for me power outage is a huge problem (especially 1 week!).
      - roenxi 2y ago
        The two that worry me are... Energy consumption per capita: Down ~30% from peak & dropping. Metric sits at 1970s levels. Electricity generation: Down ~25% from peak& dropping. Metric sits at 1970s levels. A country with results like that cannot be said to have achieved success. It looks like a disaster in the making; this is the sort of result I'd be expecting to see somewhere like North Korea or out of some other backwards tinpot nation. From Germany it is a bit jaw dropping. > Sure the prices are high in Germany (and this is a problem for industry) but as a private consumers you pay 50 EUR per month instead 16 EUR. Such hell! On the face of it that is an argument I have a lot of respect for - the problem is it doesn't jive with the figures I'm looking at, or the political rumbling coming out of Europe. If energy consumption is dropping by double digit percentages; then the impacts of those prices changes cannot be minor. They have to be serious enough to cause massively less energy consumption. So I'd say that is a convincing argument that the first order effects are contained but not really persuasive that the crisis is under control. The AfD isn't polling where it is because everyone feels comfortable and prosperous. I'd rather take Texas' grid than whatever it is the German's are doing for their energy policy. Maybe Texas has a history I don't know about where their ability to produce energy is also collapsing, but it'd have to be awful fail to the extent that the Europeans (especially Germans) have managed over the last decade or two. From what I've seen, the Texas strategy is superior. > ...and this is a problem for industry... Also, just to point at this one more time - that industry is a big part of what makes Germany prosperous. You need industry to enjoy an industrial-era living standard. Problems for industry aren't something off in the distance people can ignore.

roenxi 2y ago

> EU is arguably more regulated than California, but the regulations here have more sense to them, and arguably higher benefit to cost ratio. The last time I checked the EU appeared to be in a full-blown multi-country energy crisis triggered by some of the most stunning displays of regulatory incompetence so far this century. So I would accept that the EU is more regulated but I don't think that is the sort of point that plays well right now. I would be fighting tooth-and-nail to have my country not do what Germany did. The Texas grid, by comparison, looks like a paradise even if it is currently experiencing a week-long outage!

lazide 2y ago
The EU also has very high taxes and very high energy costs.
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- supermatt 2y ago
  The EU also has low taxes and low energy prices depending on which states you are talking about.
  - lazide 2y ago
    Which state has low taxes and low energy prices?
Jensson 2y ago
> The last time I checked the EU appeared to be in a full-blown multi-country energy crisis No outage though, the crisis was averted, unlike in Texas where the crisis reliably hits every few years.
petre 2y ago
The EU had an energy crisis because Germany was high on Russian gas, along with most of Central Europe. Thankfully the US took care of that. Southern Europe also has few fossil fuel options if Libya and Algeria decide to align themselves with Russia.
snowpid 2y ago
"would be fighting tooth-and-nail to have my country not do what Germany did. The Texas grid, by comparison, looks like a paradise even if it is currently experiencing a week-long outage!" Can you clarify such strong words? I've never encountered any power outtage in Germany my whole life and Texas this looks fairly regular.
- roenxi 2y ago
  Electricity in Germany is somewhere in the region of 3x as expensive as in Texas. I'd prefer to have cheap power and a contingency plan for a week or so of grid outage than live with those sort of prices. I've been keeping an eye on how the situation in Germany seems to be developing [0]. It makes for grim reading. [0] https://ourworldindata.org/energy/country/germany https://ourworldindata.org/energy/country/germany
  - snowpid 2y ago
    Could you clearify what is the "grim reading" in your source? Sure the prices are high in Germany (and this is a problem for industry) but as a private consumers you pay 50 EUR per month instead 16 EUR. Such hell! This is an inconvenience but for me power outage is a huge problem (especially 1 week!).
    - roenxi 2y ago
      The two that worry me are... Energy consumption per capita: Down ~30% from peak & dropping. Metric sits at 1970s levels. Electricity generation: Down ~25% from peak& dropping. Metric sits at 1970s levels. A country with results like that cannot be said to have achieved success. It looks like a disaster in the making; this is the sort of result I'd be expecting to see somewhere like North Korea or out of some other backwards tinpot nation. From Germany it is a bit jaw dropping. > Sure the prices are high in Germany (and this is a problem for industry) but as a private consumers you pay 50 EUR per month instead 16 EUR. Such hell! On the face of it that is an argument I have a lot of respect for - the problem is it doesn't jive with the figures I'm looking at, or the political rumbling coming out of Europe. If energy consumption is dropping by double digit percentages; then the impacts of those prices changes cannot be minor. They have to be serious enough to cause massively less energy consumption. So I'd say that is a convincing argument that the first order effects are contained but not really persuasive that the crisis is under control. The AfD isn't polling where it is because everyone feels comfortable and prosperous. I'd rather take Texas' grid than whatever it is the German's are doing for their energy policy. Maybe Texas has a history I don't know about where their ability to produce energy is also collapsing, but it'd have to be awful fail to the extent that the Europeans (especially Germans) have managed over the last decade or two. From what I've seen, the Texas strategy is superior. > ...and this is a problem for industry... Also, just to point at this one more time - that industry is a big part of what makes Germany prosperous. You need industry to enjoy an industrial-era living standard. Problems for industry aren't something off in the distance people can ignore.