4 ms·

This is my main issue with it right now, I'm wasting a whole physical disk in one of my home lab machines because Talos demands control over a full disk for its

by rstat1 2y ago

This is my main issue with it right now, I'm wasting a whole physical disk in one of my home lab machines because Talos demands control over a full disk for its uses. This is one of the more annoying problems with any "immutable" distro (or at least the ones I've tried). They demand a very specific partition layout that basically forces you to devote a whole disk to them, which as you said in a cloud environment (or any other environment where VMs are used in place of physical machines) doesn't matter, but ends up mattering a lot when using physical machines.

sroussey 2y ago
I’m curious on your use case. I’ve always had boot disk or boot disk array separate from any data array. Are you referring to things like a home directory?
- amluto 2y ago
  I’m referring to a server without a dedicated boot disk. This is not especially rare. On an edge-style machine, you generally have a very limited number of M.2 slots, and dedicating one to a boot device uses up potentially 100% of your potential storage capacity, not to mention that an extra drive would be a non negligible fraction of total cost. On modern servers, there may not be a usable SATA controller, and NVMe usually costs 4 PCIe lanes. Those aren’t free. You also end up paying the absurd OEM premium for an extra disk if you go with a big name OEM. Sadly, there is no industry standard cheap, reliable boot device standard, at least as far as I’ve ever seen. Maybe someone should push USB3 for this use case — the price is certainly right, and performance is likely just fine.
  - taskforcegemini 2y ago
    is there a reason you can't just boot from usb? it sounds like the perfect match. I've built immutable bootsticks in the past that run in ram only (but with other distros). hetzner for instance lets you rent usb-sticks for their dedicated servers
    - amluto 2y ago
      FWIW, it’s been a little while since I’ve messed with the low-level details of BIOS/UEFI to kernel+united to USB root disk handoff, but I’m always slightly concerned that the system will mess up and hand off to the wrong device. For a system that uses USB for anything else, this opens up an attack/screwup vector in which the wrong disk gets used, leading to all manner of problems. Also, an external dangly thing is asking for trouble (getting dislodged). An internal device solves this. In any case, the Talos people seem to recognize this as a problem and are working on it.
      - fragmede 2y ago
        fwiw an internal usb slot isn't unheard of on server-class motherboards.
  - vetinari 2y ago
    Server machines usually came with an SD-card slot on the board (and with ability to boot from it). This was often used for ESXi-like environments, which also required dedicated device for themselves. There are also SATA-DOMs or USB-DOMs. You could use one of these modules with your machine.

by rstat1 2y ago

sroussey 2y ago

I’m curious on your use case. I’ve always had boot disk or boot disk array separate from any data array. Are you referring to things like a home directory?

amluto 2y ago
I’m referring to a server without a dedicated boot disk. This is not especially rare. On an edge-style machine, you generally have a very limited number of M.2 slots, and dedicating one to a boot device uses up potentially 100% of your potential storage capacity, not to mention that an extra drive would be a non negligible fraction of total cost. On modern servers, there may not be a usable SATA controller, and NVMe usually costs 4 PCIe lanes. Those aren’t free. You also end up paying the absurd OEM premium for an extra disk if you go with a big name OEM. Sadly, there is no industry standard cheap, reliable boot device standard, at least as far as I’ve ever seen. Maybe someone should push USB3 for this use case — the price is certainly right, and performance is likely just fine.
- taskforcegemini 2y ago
  is there a reason you can't just boot from usb? it sounds like the perfect match. I've built immutable bootsticks in the past that run in ram only (but with other distros). hetzner for instance lets you rent usb-sticks for their dedicated servers
  - amluto 2y ago
    FWIW, it’s been a little while since I’ve messed with the low-level details of BIOS/UEFI to kernel+united to USB root disk handoff, but I’m always slightly concerned that the system will mess up and hand off to the wrong device. For a system that uses USB for anything else, this opens up an attack/screwup vector in which the wrong disk gets used, leading to all manner of problems. Also, an external dangly thing is asking for trouble (getting dislodged). An internal device solves this. In any case, the Talos people seem to recognize this as a problem and are working on it.
    - fragmede 2y ago
      fwiw an internal usb slot isn't unheard of on server-class motherboards.
- vetinari 2y ago
  Server machines usually came with an SD-card slot on the board (and with ability to boot from it). This was often used for ESXi-like environments, which also required dedicated device for themselves. There are also SATA-DOMs or USB-DOMs. You could use one of these modules with your machine.