6 ms·

How can you look at the US compared to any other western country and honestly believe your current situation around guns is the ideal?

deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
klyrs 2y ago
You don't get it, what about "make America great" implies that somebody thinks the country is in some "ideal" state? The answer to the guns problem is more guns. And if your main guy gets shot, that's just an excuse to start the civil war you've been prepping for all these years.
- tekknik 2y ago
  or, and more than likely, people want guns to ensure they’re not the victim, given police only respond to crimes that have already happened and rarely prevent crimes. this bigotry you have is why this happened today
wyager 2y ago
Australia is an aberration (I can go into it in more detail if you'd like), but for the most part, the reason the US is (substantially) economically better off than most European countries (like the UK, where the GGP is from) is inextricably tied to the unique ethno-cultural characteristics (descended from a weird mish-mash of quakerism, scots-irish borderer culture, etc.) of the USA. Major relevant factors include a high degree of individualism, relatively high risk tolerance, relatively strong belief in property rights, etc. - all of which are coincident with a belief in and desire for public gun ownership. I look at the US and I see one of the richest, most successful, and most impactful countries in the world (and not through any sort of low-liquidity arbitrage like being a tax haven). Our crime rates are moderately higher than countries in similar wealth brackets, but this is entirely (and I mean, non-hyperbolically, entirely) attributable to factors besides our relatively high gun ownership rates.
- sanswork 2y ago
  The whole country is in a constant state of fear because of guns. Almost every justification I've seen is about a right to protect yourselves from others with guns but you can't seem to understand that most people in western countries never have to worry about this. I don't ever leave my house worried about being shot or being in a position where a gun would help. You keep adding more guns talking about how you need them to protect yourselves from the other guns and things just keep getting worse and worse. You're on a downward spiral of gun violence and fear. You talk about wealth but it's not evenly distributed at all and there is a reason your richest live in walled off communities and your poorest die early due to lack of access to preventative medicine and quality nutrition. Wealth means little when you live with a constant threat of violence, it's like being a billionaire in China or Russia.
  - tekknik 2y ago
    > The whole country is in a constant state of fear because of guns. Most of us are not living in fear. If you say you rarely have to protect yourself then you’re defeating your own argument. the problem is the rhetoric from left media. they need to calm down and quit driving deranged people to action.
    - sanswork 2y ago
      >or, and more than likely, people want guns to ensure they’re not the victim, given police only respond to crimes that have already happened and rarely prevent crimes. That is you in another comment in this post. You are literally describing living in fear. For most people in the west the worry about needing to protect themselves never factors into their life it just isn't something we need to worry about, this constant fear is a distinctly American issue.
      - lobocinza 2y ago
        If you consider South America to be America, I can say that Brazilians constantly live in fear despite strict gun control laws and criminals have no trouble obtaining whatever they want.
lobocinza 2y ago
Like Brazil, right? Very hard to own a gun unless you're a criminal.
- sanswork 2y ago
  Brazil isn't a Western country so no not like that at all.
  - lobocinza 2y ago
    Brazil and Latin America share culture, genes, language, history, religion, laws and much more with Europe. It's nonsensical to say that Brazil and Latin America aren't Western. What's your criteria? Income per capita? Your worldview is very much biased.
    - sanswork 2y ago
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Western_world https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Western_world I'm referring to the countries in dark blue. Until the 80s you were under a dictatorship with rebel guerrillas/paramilitary organisations which later became gangs/pseudo governments in large parts of your cities. You're not really comparable.
      - lobocinza 2y ago
        > Until the 80s you were under a dictatorship with rebel guerrillas/paramilitary organisations which later became gangs/pseudo governments in large parts of your cities. You're not really comparable. You have a very superficial understanding of Brazilian history. > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Western_world https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Western_world I'm referring to the countries in dark blue. Countries in light blue are subgroups of the Western world and not groups apart. Just say rich/developed Western countries instead. > You're not really comparable. Of course not because you are cherry picking data. You want to compare a single ethnically diverse and large country (USA) with many ethnically homogeneous, small countries with much older population. You're an ignorant racist.

deleted 2y ago

[deleted]

klyrs 2y ago

You don't get it, what about "make America great" implies that somebody thinks the country is in some "ideal" state? The answer to the guns problem is more guns. And if your main guy gets shot, that's just an excuse to start the civil war you've been prepping for all these years.

tekknik 2y ago
or, and more than likely, people want guns to ensure they’re not the victim, given police only respond to crimes that have already happened and rarely prevent crimes. this bigotry you have is why this happened today

wyager 2y ago

Australia is an aberration (I can go into it in more detail if you'd like), but for the most part, the reason the US is (substantially) economically better off than most European countries (like the UK, where the GGP is from) is inextricably tied to the unique ethno-cultural characteristics (descended from a weird mish-mash of quakerism, scots-irish borderer culture, etc.) of the USA. Major relevant factors include a high degree of individualism, relatively high risk tolerance, relatively strong belief in property rights, etc. - all of which are coincident with a belief in and desire for public gun ownership. I look at the US and I see one of the richest, most successful, and most impactful countries in the world (and not through any sort of low-liquidity arbitrage like being a tax haven). Our crime rates are moderately higher than countries in similar wealth brackets, but this is entirely (and I mean, non-hyperbolically, entirely) attributable to factors besides our relatively high gun ownership rates.

sanswork 2y ago
The whole country is in a constant state of fear because of guns. Almost every justification I've seen is about a right to protect yourselves from others with guns but you can't seem to understand that most people in western countries never have to worry about this. I don't ever leave my house worried about being shot or being in a position where a gun would help. You keep adding more guns talking about how you need them to protect yourselves from the other guns and things just keep getting worse and worse. You're on a downward spiral of gun violence and fear. You talk about wealth but it's not evenly distributed at all and there is a reason your richest live in walled off communities and your poorest die early due to lack of access to preventative medicine and quality nutrition. Wealth means little when you live with a constant threat of violence, it's like being a billionaire in China or Russia.
- tekknik 2y ago
  > The whole country is in a constant state of fear because of guns. Most of us are not living in fear. If you say you rarely have to protect yourself then you’re defeating your own argument. the problem is the rhetoric from left media. they need to calm down and quit driving deranged people to action.
  - sanswork 2y ago
    >or, and more than likely, people want guns to ensure they’re not the victim, given police only respond to crimes that have already happened and rarely prevent crimes. That is you in another comment in this post. You are literally describing living in fear. For most people in the west the worry about needing to protect themselves never factors into their life it just isn't something we need to worry about, this constant fear is a distinctly American issue.
    - lobocinza 2y ago
      If you consider South America to be America, I can say that Brazilians constantly live in fear despite strict gun control laws and criminals have no trouble obtaining whatever they want.

lobocinza 2y ago

Like Brazil, right? Very hard to own a gun unless you're a criminal.

sanswork 2y ago
Brazil isn't a Western country so no not like that at all.
- lobocinza 2y ago
  Brazil and Latin America share culture, genes, language, history, religion, laws and much more with Europe. It's nonsensical to say that Brazil and Latin America aren't Western. What's your criteria? Income per capita? Your worldview is very much biased.
  - sanswork 2y ago
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Western_world https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Western_world I'm referring to the countries in dark blue. Until the 80s you were under a dictatorship with rebel guerrillas/paramilitary organisations which later became gangs/pseudo governments in large parts of your cities. You're not really comparable.
    - lobocinza 2y ago
      > Until the 80s you were under a dictatorship with rebel guerrillas/paramilitary organisations which later became gangs/pseudo governments in large parts of your cities. You're not really comparable. You have a very superficial understanding of Brazilian history. > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Western_world https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Western_world I'm referring to the countries in dark blue. Countries in light blue are subgroups of the Western world and not groups apart. Just say rich/developed Western countries instead. > You're not really comparable. Of course not because you are cherry picking data. You want to compare a single ethnically diverse and large country (USA) with many ethnically homogeneous, small countries with much older population. You're an ignorant racist.