3 ms·

Why are oil barrels more important than the SI units of volume we use in every other context?

saagarjha 2y ago
[Insert American flag emoji here]
Buttons840 2y ago
I thought we were taking about SI units, their general meaning, and the technical details of computers. Barrels seem completely unrelated to those things, being neither a SI unit, nor having to do with computers. Like a lot of arguments, we're arguing over the definition of a word here ("kilobyte"), nothing more. I'm asking why technical details about a computer are so important they can override the generally understood (and well defined) meaning of that word.
- robxorb 2y ago
  > I'm asking why technical details about a computer are so important they can override the generally understood (and well defined) meaning of that word. Because the technical details about a computer are important when describing its technical characteristics. In short, context matters, and we adapt the meaning of words by the context they're used in all the time. It's ordinary. In fact, it's so ordinary in this particular case, that all we humans did it for decades, before a weird group not representing the existing organic consensus came along and decided the terms absolutely must be changed, and presented us with extremely silly-sounding ones to replace the existing ones, that of course few adopted, leading to the situation we have today where the existing terms are used interchangably to mean both things, and there is now a greater ambiguity around them than existed before. It wasn't perfect before, but the "solution" made it worse. Therefore, it sucks in practice at meeting its goal, no matter how much sense it may make to the minority that thinks "gibibyte" is something anyone would ever want to say in public, other than in a funny voice to a dog or a baby.
BHSPitMonkey 2y ago
In this analogy, it would be more like if "barrel" was a standardized unit of volume that everyone understood and used, but then in the oil industry specifically they used a slightly different volume and still just referred to it as a "barrel" because it's what they're used to. And, whenever pressed for clarification, the oil people admitted "yes, technically our unit should be noted as 'oil barrels' which are different from the normal kind, but we like to just say 'barrels' because it's easier".
- Izkata 2y ago
  Real-world example: What weighs more, a pound of feathers or a pound of gold? Reflexive answer: gold (well obviously gold is heavier than feathers) Logical answer: neither (1 pound = 1 pound) Actual trick answer: feathers (precious metals used troy weights instead of the one just about everything else used, and 1 pound in the troy system weighs less than 1 pound in the other one) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Troy_weight https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Troy_weight
- wizzwizz4 2y ago
  That is indeed why I made the analogy. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40956618 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40956618

[Insert American flag emoji here]

I thought we were taking about SI units, their general meaning, and the technical details of computers. Barrels seem completely unrelated to those things, being neither a SI unit, nor having to do with computers. Like a lot of arguments, we're arguing over the definition of a word here ("kilobyte"), nothing more. I'm asking why technical details about a computer are so important they can override the generally understood (and well defined) meaning of that word.

robxorb 2y ago
> I'm asking why technical details about a computer are so important they can override the generally understood (and well defined) meaning of that word. Because the technical details about a computer are important when describing its technical characteristics. In short, context matters, and we adapt the meaning of words by the context they're used in all the time. It's ordinary. In fact, it's so ordinary in this particular case, that all we humans did it for decades, before a weird group not representing the existing organic consensus came along and decided the terms absolutely must be changed, and presented us with extremely silly-sounding ones to replace the existing ones, that of course few adopted, leading to the situation we have today where the existing terms are used interchangably to mean both things, and there is now a greater ambiguity around them than existed before. It wasn't perfect before, but the "solution" made it worse. Therefore, it sucks in practice at meeting its goal, no matter how much sense it may make to the minority that thinks "gibibyte" is something anyone would ever want to say in public, other than in a funny voice to a dog or a baby.

BHSPitMonkey 2y ago

In this analogy, it would be more like if "barrel" was a standardized unit of volume that everyone understood and used, but then in the oil industry specifically they used a slightly different volume and still just referred to it as a "barrel" because it's what they're used to. And, whenever pressed for clarification, the oil people admitted "yes, technically our unit should be noted as 'oil barrels' which are different from the normal kind, but we like to just say 'barrels' because it's easier".

Izkata 2y ago
Real-world example: What weighs more, a pound of feathers or a pound of gold? Reflexive answer: gold (well obviously gold is heavier than feathers) Logical answer: neither (1 pound = 1 pound) Actual trick answer: feathers (precious metals used troy weights instead of the one just about everything else used, and 1 pound in the troy system weighs less than 1 pound in the other one) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Troy_weight https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Troy_weight
wizzwizz4 2y ago
That is indeed why I made the analogy. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40956618 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40956618