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Deregulation is a terrible idea for life supporting and necessary utilities, power specifically. By deregulating the market, everyone is forced to compete for a

Deregulation is a terrible idea for life supporting and necessary utilities, power specifically. By deregulating the market, everyone is forced to compete for a finite amount of transmission ability for low profits, each one trying to undercut the other IMO. It completely destabilized the Texas power market. At this point, it may be worth considering putting the Texas power grid into some type of federal receivership.

AtlasBarfed 2y ago
Texans basically should view grid independent home solar as a minimum requirement. Between this and the ice storm s couple years ago Texas has shown itself incapable of utility grade service. In general I think the disaster resilience afforded by home solar is simply not valued enough by subsidies and incentives policies.
- standardUser 2y ago
  Texas is a highly urbanized state and a significant number of families don't have the ability to install home solar, so it cannot be viewed as 'minimum requirement' and some other solution is neccesary.
  - chgs 2y ago
    Maybe people could club together and form some form of group which provides that minimum requirement for the whole area. You could perhaps have an equal say in the group, and have a meeting every few years where you elect some people to run the thing on your behalf.
    - quitit 2y ago
      My guess is it'll meet the same fate as municipal broadband. (i.e. It is explicitly outlawed in Texas.¹) 1. https://law.justia.com/codes/texas/2005/ut/002.00.000054.00.html https://law.justia.com/codes/texas/2005/ut/002.00.000054.00....
    - standardUser 2y ago
      Or the state government could implement a regulatory regime that ensures its citizens have reliable electricity. A feat the other 49 states seem to have mostly accomplished.
  - tstrimple 2y ago
    We must have very different definitions of urbanized. Hundreds of square miles of suburbs doesn't quite count as "urbanized".
  - fy20 2y ago
    In my country the price of roof mount solar is now under €2000 for 10kWp. That includes government subsidies, however they are not that high (€350 per kWp). Texas is a much richer economy than where I live, so I see no reason why it couldn't be a requirement, at least for single family homes.
    - _heimdall 2y ago
      With a subsidu of €350 per kWp, does that mean the government subsidizes €3500 for the roof mounted solar that you quoted at €2000 for 10kWp? If so that seems like a pretty substantial subsidy to me, the government is covering around 63% of the total cost.
- bsder 2y ago
  > Texans basically should view grid independent home solar as a minimum requirement. And then hail punches through your solar panels and you have to pay for that. If there were a cheap, easy solution, people would have done it already.
  - throwaway4220 2y ago
    https://www.spc.noaa.gov/wcm/2013/HAIL.png https://www.spc.noaa.gov/wcm/2013/HAIL.png Here is a hail map. https://solarpower.guide/solar-energy-insights/infographics/states-most-solar-installations_thumb.png https://solarpower.guide/solar-energy-insights/infographics/... Here is a rough solar install map I think it’s not necesarily true that people avoid Solar because of hail, although anecdotally I know a friend who is reluctant for this very reason That being said, flooding happens very often and yet homes in Houston are not flood proof. And let’s not get into the whole cheap energy from carbon sources being subsidized
    - vel0city 2y ago
      I have multiple friends who have had significant damage to their home solar setups this year alone due to hail and high winds in North Texas. Some who didn't have hail damage are now having difficulty getting other roof damage repaired because in order for their warranty to be valid they need certain people to remove the panels before other roof work can be done. But those people are massively backed up by all the other people needing panels removed/reinstalled/replaced.
      - AtlasBarfed 2y ago
        Truly an insurmountable problem for our civilization. Well, better keep driving 5mpg trucks and dying when the power company fails then.
        vel0city 2y ago
        Those people predominantly drive EVs...
mardifoufs 2y ago
I think this is just confirmation bias. We have plenty of power outages, some that last longer than this (the 1998 ice storm in Quebec took down the power for weeks). Last year we were out of power for 4 days, again right in the middle of Montreal. It just seems like HN likes to see stories about the Texas power grid, since I don't even remember a story about Montreal's outage last year hitting the front page for long. I don't think anyone could argue that Quebec has a deregulated power grid, it's the complete opposite in fact. Power generation, distribution, and last mile connections are all nationalized.
- Jensson 2y ago
  You want a mix, you don't full government control but you don't want full free market either.
zdragnar 2y ago
Centerpoint applied for $100 mil in funding from the department of energy in 2023 to make their infrastructure more resilient and were denied. If you want to blame politics, this is a case of national bureaucracy getting it wrong than deregulation.
bob1029 2y ago
I don't know that this event is a great example for your argument. An entirely different energy market model (MISO/Entergy) was also heavily impacted. The Woodlands, Conroe, et. al. are on a completely different grid. I don't get to pick a "retail electricity provider" and I live 20 minutes from people who can. Doesn't seem to matter. All markets hit by Beryl are approximately the same degree of screwed, regardless of any specific underlying ideologies.
sjs382 2y ago
This has nothing to do with the grid, nor deregulation. The supply market is deregulated. The last mile transmission is not.

AtlasBarfed 2y ago

Texans basically should view grid independent home solar as a minimum requirement. Between this and the ice storm s couple years ago Texas has shown itself incapable of utility grade service. In general I think the disaster resilience afforded by home solar is simply not valued enough by subsidies and incentives policies.

standardUser 2y ago
Texas is a highly urbanized state and a significant number of families don't have the ability to install home solar, so it cannot be viewed as 'minimum requirement' and some other solution is neccesary.
- chgs 2y ago
  Maybe people could club together and form some form of group which provides that minimum requirement for the whole area. You could perhaps have an equal say in the group, and have a meeting every few years where you elect some people to run the thing on your behalf.
  - quitit 2y ago
    My guess is it'll meet the same fate as municipal broadband. (i.e. It is explicitly outlawed in Texas.¹) 1. https://law.justia.com/codes/texas/2005/ut/002.00.000054.00.html https://law.justia.com/codes/texas/2005/ut/002.00.000054.00....
  - standardUser 2y ago
    Or the state government could implement a regulatory regime that ensures its citizens have reliable electricity. A feat the other 49 states seem to have mostly accomplished.
- tstrimple 2y ago
  We must have very different definitions of urbanized. Hundreds of square miles of suburbs doesn't quite count as "urbanized".
- fy20 2y ago
  In my country the price of roof mount solar is now under €2000 for 10kWp. That includes government subsidies, however they are not that high (€350 per kWp). Texas is a much richer economy than where I live, so I see no reason why it couldn't be a requirement, at least for single family homes.
  - _heimdall 2y ago
    With a subsidu of €350 per kWp, does that mean the government subsidizes €3500 for the roof mounted solar that you quoted at €2000 for 10kWp? If so that seems like a pretty substantial subsidy to me, the government is covering around 63% of the total cost.
bsder 2y ago
> Texans basically should view grid independent home solar as a minimum requirement. And then hail punches through your solar panels and you have to pay for that. If there were a cheap, easy solution, people would have done it already.
- throwaway4220 2y ago
  https://www.spc.noaa.gov/wcm/2013/HAIL.png https://www.spc.noaa.gov/wcm/2013/HAIL.png Here is a hail map. https://solarpower.guide/solar-energy-insights/infographics/states-most-solar-installations_thumb.png https://solarpower.guide/solar-energy-insights/infographics/... Here is a rough solar install map I think it’s not necesarily true that people avoid Solar because of hail, although anecdotally I know a friend who is reluctant for this very reason That being said, flooding happens very often and yet homes in Houston are not flood proof. And let’s not get into the whole cheap energy from carbon sources being subsidized
  - vel0city 2y ago
    I have multiple friends who have had significant damage to their home solar setups this year alone due to hail and high winds in North Texas. Some who didn't have hail damage are now having difficulty getting other roof damage repaired because in order for their warranty to be valid they need certain people to remove the panels before other roof work can be done. But those people are massively backed up by all the other people needing panels removed/reinstalled/replaced.
    - AtlasBarfed 2y ago
      Truly an insurmountable problem for our civilization. Well, better keep driving 5mpg trucks and dying when the power company fails then.
      - vel0city 2y ago
        Those people predominantly drive EVs...

mardifoufs 2y ago

I think this is just confirmation bias. We have plenty of power outages, some that last longer than this (the 1998 ice storm in Quebec took down the power for weeks). Last year we were out of power for 4 days, again right in the middle of Montreal. It just seems like HN likes to see stories about the Texas power grid, since I don't even remember a story about Montreal's outage last year hitting the front page for long. I don't think anyone could argue that Quebec has a deregulated power grid, it's the complete opposite in fact. Power generation, distribution, and last mile connections are all nationalized.

Jensson 2y ago
You want a mix, you don't full government control but you don't want full free market either.

zdragnar 2y ago

Centerpoint applied for $100 mil in funding from the department of energy in 2023 to make their infrastructure more resilient and were denied. If you want to blame politics, this is a case of national bureaucracy getting it wrong than deregulation.

bob1029 2y ago

I don't know that this event is a great example for your argument. An entirely different energy market model (MISO/Entergy) was also heavily impacted. The Woodlands, Conroe, et. al. are on a completely different grid. I don't get to pick a "retail electricity provider" and I live 20 minutes from people who can. Doesn't seem to matter. All markets hit by Beryl are approximately the same degree of screwed, regardless of any specific underlying ideologies.

sjs382 2y ago

This has nothing to do with the grid, nor deregulation. The supply market is deregulated. The last mile transmission is not.