4 ms·

I was reading some discussion of this recently, and it seems that the common factor also seems to be overclocking and the fact that many motherboards are set up

I was reading some discussion of this recently, and it seems that the common factor also seems to be overclocking and the fact that many motherboards are set up to default to overclock instead of running at the approved clock speed. And wherever it was I read that (sorry, would link if I remembered), the people that commented that were basically shouted down by people saying that people buy these chips because they believe they're more suited to overclocking... Personally, I've not overclocked anything since the Athlon days with the pencil mark to gain 10% trick, but I guess a lot of the hobbyists nowadays are more interested in getting the biggest number than having the most stable system, so overclocking is now the norm. The only way this can really be resolved is some official clarification as to whether overclocking is manufacturer supported or not. Also, from TFA, if the problems persist after swapping processor, that kind of suggests a motherboard / power / settings issue to me.

treprinum 2y ago
They mention that 50% of 13900k and 14900k in workstation W680 motherboards had the same issue so it's unlikely it's because of overclocking/overvolting as those boards are made for stability.
quercusa 2y ago
Doesn't the 'K' in the CPU name signify it's been tested/binned to support overclocking?
- D13Fd 2y ago
  I thought it just meant the multiplier was unlocked.
zamadatix 2y ago
Just calling it "overclocking" is probably not the right way to describe it (all modern CPUs do sorta a form of what might be referred to as overclocking from the factory and it was about the parameters feeding the voltage behaviors driving that) and it's not really related to unsupported clock speeds, just holding said clock speeds in the wrong ways. Intel made an effort to avoid calling it just overclocking in the release on the matter as that typically means directly setting the clock higher not all of the other things too. For one more clarification, overclocking is never something that's supported by any of the CPU vendors, it's just something that the CPU has the capability to do instead of being locked. Some of these things (such as disabling c-states) should definitely be something Intel supports though as that's disabling a powersave feature for inactivity not changing how far the CPU gets pushed above nominal limits during turbo. While it is something that definitely cleans up a lot of issues Intel also noted they don't consider it to be the root cause of the overall stability issue as a whole, just something problematic they've noticed was causing a lot of issues while trying to dig into it. Original statement by Intel on this topic back in April: "Intel® has observed that this issue may be related to out of specification operating conditions resulting in sustained high voltage and frequency during periods of elevated heat. Analysis of affected processors shows some parts experience shifts in minimum operating voltages which may be related to operation outside of Intel® specified operating conditions. While the root cause has not yet been identified, Intel® has observed the majority of reports of this issue are from users with unlocked/overclock capable motherboards. Intel® has observed 600/700 Series chipset boards often set BIOS defaults to disable thermal and power delivery safeguards designed to limit processor exposure to sustained periods of high voltage and frequency, for example: – Disabling Current Excursion Protection (CEP) – Enabling the IccMax Unlimited bit – Disabling Thermal Velocity Boost (TVB) and/or Enhanced Thermal Velocity Boost (eTVB) – Additional settings which may increase the risk of system instability: – Disabling C-states – Using Windows Ultimate Performance mode – Increasing PL1 and PL2 beyond Intel® recommended limits Intel® requests system and motherboard manufacturers to provide end users with a default BIOS profile that matches Intel® recommended settings. Intel® strongly recommends customer's default BIOS settings should ensure operation within Intel's recommended settings. In addition, Intel® strongly recommends motherboard manufacturers to implement warnings for end users alerting them to any unlocked or overclocking feature usage. Intel® is continuing to actively investigate this issue to determine the root cause and will provide additional updates as relevant information becomes available. Intel® will be publishing a public statement regarding issue status and Intel® recommended BIOS setting recommendations targeted for May 2024."

treprinum 2y ago

They mention that 50% of 13900k and 14900k in workstation W680 motherboards had the same issue so it's unlikely it's because of overclocking/overvolting as those boards are made for stability.

quercusa 2y ago

Doesn't the 'K' in the CPU name signify it's been tested/binned to support overclocking?

D13Fd 2y ago
I thought it just meant the multiplier was unlocked.

zamadatix 2y ago

Just calling it "overclocking" is probably not the right way to describe it (all modern CPUs do sorta a form of what might be referred to as overclocking from the factory and it was about the parameters feeding the voltage behaviors driving that) and it's not really related to unsupported clock speeds, just holding said clock speeds in the wrong ways. Intel made an effort to avoid calling it just overclocking in the release on the matter as that typically means directly setting the clock higher not all of the other things too. For one more clarification, overclocking is never something that's supported by any of the CPU vendors, it's just something that the CPU has the capability to do instead of being locked. Some of these things (such as disabling c-states) should definitely be something Intel supports though as that's disabling a powersave feature for inactivity not changing how far the CPU gets pushed above nominal limits during turbo. While it is something that definitely cleans up a lot of issues Intel also noted they don't consider it to be the root cause of the overall stability issue as a whole, just something problematic they've noticed was causing a lot of issues while trying to dig into it. Original statement by Intel on this topic back in April: "Intel® has observed that this issue may be related to out of specification operating conditions resulting in sustained high voltage and frequency during periods of elevated heat. Analysis of affected processors shows some parts experience shifts in minimum operating voltages which may be related to operation outside of Intel® specified operating conditions. While the root cause has not yet been identified, Intel® has observed the majority of reports of this issue are from users with unlocked/overclock capable motherboards. Intel® has observed 600/700 Series chipset boards often set BIOS defaults to disable thermal and power delivery safeguards designed to limit processor exposure to sustained periods of high voltage and frequency, for example: – Disabling Current Excursion Protection (CEP) – Enabling the IccMax Unlimited bit – Disabling Thermal Velocity Boost (TVB) and/or Enhanced Thermal Velocity Boost (eTVB) – Additional settings which may increase the risk of system instability: – Disabling C-states – Using Windows Ultimate Performance mode – Increasing PL1 and PL2 beyond Intel® recommended limits Intel® requests system and motherboard manufacturers to provide end users with a default BIOS profile that matches Intel® recommended settings. Intel® strongly recommends customer's default BIOS settings should ensure operation within Intel's recommended settings. In addition, Intel® strongly recommends motherboard manufacturers to implement warnings for end users alerting them to any unlocked or overclocking feature usage. Intel® is continuing to actively investigate this issue to determine the root cause and will provide additional updates as relevant information becomes available. Intel® will be publishing a public statement regarding issue status and Intel® recommended BIOS setting recommendations targeted for May 2024."