4 ms·

> the city struggles to hire lifeguards to staff its beaches They don't go into detail, but surely a fleet of drones with life raft deployment capability is a

> the city struggles to hire lifeguards to staff its beaches They don't go into detail, but surely a fleet of drones with life raft deployment capability is a lot more expensive than just hiring more lifeguards? I suspect if they put the drone budget into lifeguard pay, they'd find quickly they no longer have a problem recruiting.

throwup238 2y ago
Where are they going to find them? Ocean lifeguarding isn't an easy certification that any kid can do out of high school like the Red Cross pool lifeguard stuff. Most of the people who have it live on the West coast or down south in Florida, where most of the training programs are. Why would they move up to NYC where the weather sucks, they can only work half the year, and the cost of living is through the roof?
- throwway120385 2y ago
  Because the city would presumably be paying them a living wage for a full year's work.
  - culopatin 2y ago
    But that’s more expensive than the drones so here we are, no?
    - throwway120385 2y ago
      Yeah, I mean if that's your metric then so be it. I think people might be appalled because they value more than cost.
      - culopatin 2y ago
        That is the metric of people who handle money and have a budget. Which happens to be the people that make decisions in situations like these and many others. You can be appalled all you want but if your idea is not affordable by the city is just not gonna get done.
- blululu 2y ago
  New York City has no trouble staffing a great number of niche specialists. Somehow the parks department can find FAA licensed drone operators, but they are unable to find some lifeguards? And the issue is not just ocean lifeguard certification. The city also has a shortage of lifeguards for their pools which now need to operate at ~30% capacity during the summer. The issues fall with the lifeguard union combined with absurd legal/safety requirements combined with rampant mismanagement. Frankly it is pretty upsetting to go to the beach in Far Rockaway, where you must be corralled into the one jetty that has all the lifeguards (spaced about 50 feet apart). The parks department of course has resources to deploys people with whistles to walk up the beach and yell at anyone getting too close to the water.
throwaway562if1 2y ago
[dead]
Lariscus 2y ago
But that sounds boring and reasonable. Who cares that the whole project costs a lot, is apparently wildlife endangering, and has dubious benefits. Drones go brrrr, look like fancy future tech and I can put it in my CV to impress my next employer.
- fragmede 2y ago
  That "brrr" sound is from the rotors which allow a drone to fly around like a goddamn magic wizard floating eyeball spell. I don't know about you, but I can't levitate over the water and fly over the beach at 25+ mph. If you could do that, you'd have one helluva CV with which to impress an employer and wouldn't need be all jealous about it.
crazygringo 2y ago
Is it more expensive? Hiring lots more lifeguards for an entire summer is seriously expensive. I'm having a hard time imagining how a couple of drone operators plus the drones is more expensive than, say, 20 more lifeguards. Not to mention the drones do things that lifeguards can't do, like search operations and shark detection.
- righthand 2y ago
  Because the program is run by the NYPD, so already high cost. Who purchase the drones from some contractor at most likely elevated cost. This doesn’t account for all the training costs on specialized equipment. Hiring life guards for a few months is a drop in the bucket that has proven more results than drones dropping a raft operated by an organization that doesn’t even teach CPR.
  - crazygringo 2y ago
    > Hiring life guards for a few months is a drop in the bucket Where do you get that idea? Lifeguards aren't cheap. You don't just need two -- you need 20, 40, whatever. That's major money. On the other hand, the drone operators are similarly only for the same few months. Again, this idea that a couple of drone operators and equipment costs more than, say, 20 or more full-time lifeguards doesn't make any sense. These are just drones. They're not missiles that cost $100K apiece or something where you go through several a week.
    - righthand 2y ago
      [0] NYC drones fleet continues to expand The NYPD paid $87,750 in June for a Lemur 2 drone manufactured by Seattle-based drone company BRINC That was just for two drones one year ago. The NYPD has many more than 2 drones. That doesn’t include operator salaries, benefits, training, etc. Furthermore there is no reason why the NYPD needs to be the one budgeting and handling this at all. This is just another land grab by a very bloated and out of control crony organization. [0] https://gothamist.com/news/the-nypd-is-using-drones-3-times-more-than-it-did-last-year https://gothamist.com/news/the-nypd-is-using-drones-3-times-...
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
RecycledEle 2y ago
> I suspect if they put the drone budget into lifeguard pay, they'd find quickly they no longer have a problem recruiting. The problem may be Management-Class people who think it is unethical to pay above the bottom quartile in pay or to accept less than the top quartile in talent. I believe the Management-Class is the cause of most of our problems. I define Management-Class as people who yell at and fire people whose jobs they could never do.

throwup238 2y ago

Where are they going to find them? Ocean lifeguarding isn't an easy certification that any kid can do out of high school like the Red Cross pool lifeguard stuff. Most of the people who have it live on the West coast or down south in Florida, where most of the training programs are. Why would they move up to NYC where the weather sucks, they can only work half the year, and the cost of living is through the roof?

throwway120385 2y ago
Because the city would presumably be paying them a living wage for a full year's work.
- culopatin 2y ago
  But that’s more expensive than the drones so here we are, no?
  - throwway120385 2y ago
    Yeah, I mean if that's your metric then so be it. I think people might be appalled because they value more than cost.
    - culopatin 2y ago
      That is the metric of people who handle money and have a budget. Which happens to be the people that make decisions in situations like these and many others. You can be appalled all you want but if your idea is not affordable by the city is just not gonna get done.
blululu 2y ago
New York City has no trouble staffing a great number of niche specialists. Somehow the parks department can find FAA licensed drone operators, but they are unable to find some lifeguards? And the issue is not just ocean lifeguard certification. The city also has a shortage of lifeguards for their pools which now need to operate at ~30% capacity during the summer. The issues fall with the lifeguard union combined with absurd legal/safety requirements combined with rampant mismanagement. Frankly it is pretty upsetting to go to the beach in Far Rockaway, where you must be corralled into the one jetty that has all the lifeguards (spaced about 50 feet apart). The parks department of course has resources to deploys people with whistles to walk up the beach and yell at anyone getting too close to the water.

throwaway562if1 2y ago

[dead]

Lariscus 2y ago

But that sounds boring and reasonable. Who cares that the whole project costs a lot, is apparently wildlife endangering, and has dubious benefits. Drones go brrrr, look like fancy future tech and I can put it in my CV to impress my next employer.

fragmede 2y ago
That "brrr" sound is from the rotors which allow a drone to fly around like a goddamn magic wizard floating eyeball spell. I don't know about you, but I can't levitate over the water and fly over the beach at 25+ mph. If you could do that, you'd have one helluva CV with which to impress an employer and wouldn't need be all jealous about it.

crazygringo 2y ago

Is it more expensive? Hiring lots more lifeguards for an entire summer is seriously expensive. I'm having a hard time imagining how a couple of drone operators plus the drones is more expensive than, say, 20 more lifeguards. Not to mention the drones do things that lifeguards can't do, like search operations and shark detection.

righthand 2y ago
Because the program is run by the NYPD, so already high cost. Who purchase the drones from some contractor at most likely elevated cost. This doesn’t account for all the training costs on specialized equipment. Hiring life guards for a few months is a drop in the bucket that has proven more results than drones dropping a raft operated by an organization that doesn’t even teach CPR.
- crazygringo 2y ago
  > Hiring life guards for a few months is a drop in the bucket Where do you get that idea? Lifeguards aren't cheap. You don't just need two -- you need 20, 40, whatever. That's major money. On the other hand, the drone operators are similarly only for the same few months. Again, this idea that a couple of drone operators and equipment costs more than, say, 20 or more full-time lifeguards doesn't make any sense. These are just drones. They're not missiles that cost $100K apiece or something where you go through several a week.
  - righthand 2y ago
    [0] NYC drones fleet continues to expand The NYPD paid $87,750 in June for a Lemur 2 drone manufactured by Seattle-based drone company BRINC That was just for two drones one year ago. The NYPD has many more than 2 drones. That doesn’t include operator salaries, benefits, training, etc. Furthermore there is no reason why the NYPD needs to be the one budgeting and handling this at all. This is just another land grab by a very bloated and out of control crony organization. [0] https://gothamist.com/news/the-nypd-is-using-drones-3-times-more-than-it-did-last-year https://gothamist.com/news/the-nypd-is-using-drones-3-times-...

deleted 2y ago

[deleted]

RecycledEle 2y ago

> I suspect if they put the drone budget into lifeguard pay, they'd find quickly they no longer have a problem recruiting. The problem may be Management-Class people who think it is unethical to pay above the bottom quartile in pay or to accept less than the top quartile in talent. I believe the Management-Class is the cause of most of our problems. I define Management-Class as people who yell at and fire people whose jobs they could never do.