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I was under the impression that the government wasn't allowed to create a mandate that a telco has to save all phone records like that, but it doesn't stop a te

I was under the impression that the government wasn't allowed to create a mandate that a telco has to save all phone records like that, but it doesn't stop a telco from doing it themselves. I think that would fall more under GDPR limitations?

chmod775 2y ago
I believe you are correct. That's what I was referring to with "illegal in many countries". Most judgements on this issue predate GDPR, but before GDPR, many countries already had similar laws and attitudes. For example article 2* and 10 of the German constitution protect personal data and communication, not just from others, but also from the government. Not unlike the GDPR. Some service providers in Europe don't even want to save any data. The linked judgement above was the German state suing Telekom, which didn't want to save that data, and losing. Given the state of affairs, the question of "illegal or not" doesn't really come up as much. At least I'm not aware of any high profile judgements. Besides Telekom, which always tried to minimize they data they keep to the point of fighting it all the way to Europe's highest courts, most other telcos don't really care and pick whichever middle-ground is available between "must" and "must not". Whatever is least-likely to get them into trouble. Right now that just happens to mean "save little". * It's not stated explicitly in article 2, but the German constitutional court decided that it follows from those personal rights: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Informational_self-determination https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Informational_self-determinati...
bobmcnamara 2y ago
Historically we handled this with fiber taps at AT&T, as well as other ISPs. Some of them even knew about it.
- HeatrayEnjoyer 2y ago
  How could they not know about it?
  - bobmcnamara 2y ago
    Easy, we installed them between their sites, before they were lit up.

chmod775 2y ago

I believe you are correct. That's what I was referring to with "illegal in many countries". Most judgements on this issue predate GDPR, but before GDPR, many countries already had similar laws and attitudes. For example article 2* and 10 of the German constitution protect personal data and communication, not just from others, but also from the government. Not unlike the GDPR. Some service providers in Europe don't even want to save any data. The linked judgement above was the German state suing Telekom, which didn't want to save that data, and losing. Given the state of affairs, the question of "illegal or not" doesn't really come up as much. At least I'm not aware of any high profile judgements. Besides Telekom, which always tried to minimize they data they keep to the point of fighting it all the way to Europe's highest courts, most other telcos don't really care and pick whichever middle-ground is available between "must" and "must not". Whatever is least-likely to get them into trouble. Right now that just happens to mean "save little". * It's not stated explicitly in article 2, but the German constitutional court decided that it follows from those personal rights: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Informational_self-determination https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Informational_self-determinati...

bobmcnamara 2y ago

Historically we handled this with fiber taps at AT&T, as well as other ISPs. Some of them even knew about it.

HeatrayEnjoyer 2y ago
How could they not know about it?
- bobmcnamara 2y ago
  Easy, we installed them between their sites, before they were lit up.