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Terrible. The locals who live in communities affected by this overreach will lose the culture and quality of life they enjoy over time, as density increases. I’

Terrible. The locals who live in communities affected by this overreach will lose the culture and quality of life they enjoy over time, as density increases. I’m not sure why everyone needs to crowd into a few cities. We should be developing mid tier cities more and building a more distributed economy. That way everyone can enjoy prosperous lives without being in each others way to an excessive degree. Other countries have used financial incentives to attract businesses to mid tier cities. America doesn’t do that as well. There is no shortage of units nationwide - just people who feel entitled to live in the most desirable and expensive places at a price they can afford. There are plenty of towns where housing is available and cheap. Sure people may not get the desk job they want in the field they want but there are jobs available.

MaxHoppersGhost 2y ago
Or we can build homes where people want to live. Feel free to move to Lubbock, TX to make room for these “locals”. What about the locals in these mid tier cities who would be displaced by Facebook employee #20,727?
elteto 2y ago
In summary: “screw you, I got mine. Go some where else”.
- MaxHoppersGhost 2y ago
  OP whines about the entitled but sounds like he’s pretty entitled as well.
- happytoexplain 2y ago
  The fact that replies of this quality level are so common on this topic even on HN, where internet-style sarcasm/bitterness is otherwise relatively rare, makes me desperately sad. It just makes me feel like nobody cares about anybody. I understand you probably have good intentions, but please don't fan the flames of hatred on yet another topic we simply can't seem to be rational about as a culture. There is no unambiguous moral high-ground on virtually any topic, particularly this one.
  - asdff 2y ago
    I think many are just exhausted by all the people who constantly miss the forest for the trees on this issue. Supply and demand isn't really something that is taught in our school system unless you go on to take classes that go over this and other basic economic theories.
- blackeyeblitzar 2y ago
  It’s not about “getting mine”. If I and neighbors have a community, governing it ourselves to maintain our quality of life makes sense. We have put in time and work and money to make our communities what they are. Now others look at these communities and want it for themselves but with the job they want to be in, with the price they can pay, etc. That’s just not reasonable and especially because it requires current residents to subsidize them with a loss of their own quality of life. For example if there is more traffic or less parking or more crowds at parks, it takes away quality of life from the rest of us. Decisions on density and zoning should remain local, because of how local these decisions and impacts can be, and how directly it impacts current local residents. By the way I would be happy to even pay taxes to encourage economic or housing development in other cities to strike a balance between affordability and protecting quality of life. I see an often repeated false attack against anti density people that they just care about their house’s value. That’s not on my mind at all. I just don’t want to have my neighborhood crumble into every other decrepit high density city I’ve lived in previously, after building a life that fits me well over years, just because a sudden influx of newcomers want to change everything. Is that really any more “selfish” than those seeking to move in and take away local zoning and permitting process?
  - MaxHoppersGhost 2y ago
    This is the same logic folks used to keep black people out of their neighborhood.
    - happytoexplain 2y ago
      People using a line of logic to justify racism doesn't make the logic itself faulty. That would be onerous. If you disagree with the parent, do so, rather than calling them racist. Please save that for other parts of the internet (or for overtly racist people).
      - asdff 2y ago
        I don't see that comment as calling out the previous commenter as a racist, just highlighting how brittle the logic actually is. I think the lesson is that humans are in fact fungible, and doling out preferential treatment of them in terms of ancestry or color or economics or merely owning land isn't in the spirit of an egalitarian democracy. We certainly don't live in one of those today, but I think we like to at least pretend we do and we should strive for it.
kelseyfrog 2y ago
Honest question, why does the finger of entitlement point toward people wanting to build more or live in a place instead of toward the people who feel entitled to keep their neighborhoods stagnant, or entitled to rising property values? Who gets to point the finger of entitlement, and why?
- happytoexplain 2y ago
  You say the question is honest, but your characterization of each side (neutral words for one side, "stagnant" for the other) implies an uncharitable bias. Regardless, there is not one finger - it is of course not that simple. People on both sides are entitled and people on both sides are the victims of entitlement. As for who gets to make accusations of entitlement - anybody. When two people make different claims about the spread of entitlement, that's just disagreement. You don't have to build up rules around it.
  - kelseyfrog 2y ago
    It's honest. I'm not trying to hide my bias. The rest of the response though attempts to "both-sides" the issue. The reality is that NIMBYs are wrong. That's just a fact of nature.
    - Log_out_ 2y ago
      The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few.
yongjik 2y ago
Cupertino School District had to close three elementary schools recently because there weren't enough students [1]. This didn't happen in an aging town in the middle of nowhere. This happened in the middle of the Silicon Valley, right next to Apple Campus. If a town's "culture" is such that even having one of the most desirable workplaces in the world cannot save it from becoming an old retirement town, maybe there's something wrong with the culture and it should serve the town well to shake away that culture. [1] https://www.svvoice.com/cusd-board-votes-to-close-three-schools-in-2022-23-school-year/ https://www.svvoice.com/cusd-board-votes-to-close-three-scho...

MaxHoppersGhost 2y ago

Or we can build homes where people want to live. Feel free to move to Lubbock, TX to make room for these “locals”. What about the locals in these mid tier cities who would be displaced by Facebook employee #20,727?

elteto 2y ago

In summary: “screw you, I got mine. Go some where else”.

MaxHoppersGhost 2y ago
OP whines about the entitled but sounds like he’s pretty entitled as well.
happytoexplain 2y ago
The fact that replies of this quality level are so common on this topic even on HN, where internet-style sarcasm/bitterness is otherwise relatively rare, makes me desperately sad. It just makes me feel like nobody cares about anybody. I understand you probably have good intentions, but please don't fan the flames of hatred on yet another topic we simply can't seem to be rational about as a culture. There is no unambiguous moral high-ground on virtually any topic, particularly this one.
- asdff 2y ago
  I think many are just exhausted by all the people who constantly miss the forest for the trees on this issue. Supply and demand isn't really something that is taught in our school system unless you go on to take classes that go over this and other basic economic theories.
blackeyeblitzar 2y ago
It’s not about “getting mine”. If I and neighbors have a community, governing it ourselves to maintain our quality of life makes sense. We have put in time and work and money to make our communities what they are. Now others look at these communities and want it for themselves but with the job they want to be in, with the price they can pay, etc. That’s just not reasonable and especially because it requires current residents to subsidize them with a loss of their own quality of life. For example if there is more traffic or less parking or more crowds at parks, it takes away quality of life from the rest of us. Decisions on density and zoning should remain local, because of how local these decisions and impacts can be, and how directly it impacts current local residents. By the way I would be happy to even pay taxes to encourage economic or housing development in other cities to strike a balance between affordability and protecting quality of life. I see an often repeated false attack against anti density people that they just care about their house’s value. That’s not on my mind at all. I just don’t want to have my neighborhood crumble into every other decrepit high density city I’ve lived in previously, after building a life that fits me well over years, just because a sudden influx of newcomers want to change everything. Is that really any more “selfish” than those seeking to move in and take away local zoning and permitting process?
- MaxHoppersGhost 2y ago
  This is the same logic folks used to keep black people out of their neighborhood.
  - happytoexplain 2y ago
    People using a line of logic to justify racism doesn't make the logic itself faulty. That would be onerous. If you disagree with the parent, do so, rather than calling them racist. Please save that for other parts of the internet (or for overtly racist people).
    - asdff 2y ago
      I don't see that comment as calling out the previous commenter as a racist, just highlighting how brittle the logic actually is. I think the lesson is that humans are in fact fungible, and doling out preferential treatment of them in terms of ancestry or color or economics or merely owning land isn't in the spirit of an egalitarian democracy. We certainly don't live in one of those today, but I think we like to at least pretend we do and we should strive for it.

kelseyfrog 2y ago

Honest question, why does the finger of entitlement point toward people wanting to build more or live in a place instead of toward the people who feel entitled to keep their neighborhoods stagnant, or entitled to rising property values? Who gets to point the finger of entitlement, and why?

happytoexplain 2y ago
You say the question is honest, but your characterization of each side (neutral words for one side, "stagnant" for the other) implies an uncharitable bias. Regardless, there is not one finger - it is of course not that simple. People on both sides are entitled and people on both sides are the victims of entitlement. As for who gets to make accusations of entitlement - anybody. When two people make different claims about the spread of entitlement, that's just disagreement. You don't have to build up rules around it.
- kelseyfrog 2y ago
  It's honest. I'm not trying to hide my bias. The rest of the response though attempts to "both-sides" the issue. The reality is that NIMBYs are wrong. That's just a fact of nature.
  - Log_out_ 2y ago
    The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few.

yongjik 2y ago

Cupertino School District had to close three elementary schools recently because there weren't enough students [1]. This didn't happen in an aging town in the middle of nowhere. This happened in the middle of the Silicon Valley, right next to Apple Campus. If a town's "culture" is such that even having one of the most desirable workplaces in the world cannot save it from becoming an old retirement town, maybe there's something wrong with the culture and it should serve the town well to shake away that culture. [1] https://www.svvoice.com/cusd-board-votes-to-close-three-schools-in-2022-23-school-year/ https://www.svvoice.com/cusd-board-votes-to-close-three-scho...