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> In its early days, the web was markup. The browser was to meant to display text with some basic formatting and hyperlinks. At some point in the later evolutio
by joshstrange 2y ago
> In its early days, the web was markup. The browser was to meant to display text with some basic formatting and hyperlinks. At some point in the later evolution, JavaScript was created, allowing websites to dynamically change their content on the device. What happened in the meantime? A mess.
No. Evolution happened. Look I was with the author when they started with the Topics API Google shoved into Chrome and I also share the concern about the web turning into chromium but then they go to pretend this isn’t want users wanted. It’s exactly what users wanted, maybe not tech nerds but general users do want these changes by and large.
I mean you aren’t going to find anyone who likes that news sites have a million trackers and download MB of data to track and advertise to you but if we set that aside and focus on WebApps (which news sites aren’t) then yes, that’s what people want.
I get frustrated with people who appear to pine for the days of the web being just “documents”, before the “evil JavaScript”. Just because something grows and changes doesn’t make it bad and if all you could is browse documents on the web then it wouldn’t be nearly as popular as it is today. People don’t want these changes? Bullshit, they prove over and over again they absolutely do. People want WebApps.
Yes, people will complain about subscriptions but they complained about software upgrades as well so I don’t see a difference. People complain about any kind of change if we stopped progress anytime people complained we’d get nowhere. This is going to sound controversial but the best skill you can hone is knowing which complaints to ignore. Not all complaints are valid and sometimes your loudest complainers are the ones you need to ignore most.
Getting back to things in the article, Office 365 (which I personally don’t use) and friends are way better than “our IT dept hasn’t upgraded Office in 6 years” and that’s IF you have an IT dept that isn’t the boss’ kid helping out a bit. SMB don’t have IT departments normally or they outsource it, Office 365 really isn’t that expensive given what you get from it (same with Google Workspace). Yes, you pay a subscription or “rent” but it means you don’t have to maintain or manage the process. To many people, especially here on HN, write that off and frankly it’s embarrassing. Just because you can do something yourself doesn’t mean you should. It’s an arbitrary line they draw in the sand and with all arbitrary lines, it’s gets absurd when you move it (should you write your software for everything because you can? Should you haul your own water instead of paying “rent” to the water company?).
- Bluestein 2y ago> This is going to sound controversial but the best skill you can hone is knowing which complaints to ignore. Not at all. It's Ford's "they'd still be riding horses".-
- PaulRobinson 2y agoI have sympathy with the authors' position, and the "the web should just be documents" crowd. There is nothing wrong with SSR. There is nothing wrong with you having mobile or desktop apps that provide rich interactivity and feedback. But we have turned a document based medium into an ugly monster because we're squeezing stuff in for privacy-invading rent-seekers. I don't mind people being paid for their work, and I don't mind paying them, but why does progress/evolution need to involve terrible, horrible technologies that break accessibility, privacy and the integrity of the medium? Why can't Google just go build a new technology and leave the web alone? Why are we all marching to the drum of adtech, like there is no alternative?
- Bluestein 2y agoI think you have very succinctly stated a reasonable "compromise", as it were, and clarified the (many) issues here ... > Why can't Google just go build a new technology and leave the web alone? ... or develop within the medium, as is or as "it should be", this later desiderata being guided by open, agreed-upon "standards", with input by all stakeholders.- > Why are we all marching to the drum of adtech, like there is no alternative? In a way - and I am sure this is an "overdetermined" issue - not only because of "monetization": The web, has never developed a sufficiently workable "micropayments" solution (for example) as a compensatory mechanism for stakeholders adding value ... ... so advertising became a sort of default. Downhill from there ...
- oneeyedpigeon 2y ago> The web, has never developed a sufficiently workable "micropayments" solution Is this just because payment processors make it non-viable? I used to think crypto would come and rescue us in this regard, but it hasn't yet. I also liked the old readability model (pay a fixed monthly amount which gets distributed among sites you visit) but that didn't make it either.