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Developers like you and I are a dying breed. We remember writing applications for operating systems that had straightforward APIs, and OS developers that worked

Developers like you and I are a dying breed. We remember writing applications for operating systems that had straightforward APIs, and OS developers that worked hard to ensure any app which used those APIs would not break. Most "full-stack" developers I know that write web apps have literally never written a line of C++ in their life, let alone written a rich text editor using an object oriented desktop GUI API. They don't know it's not supposed to hurt.

piva00 2y ago
But C++ hurts, a lot. My first foray into C++ was trying to write exactly a GUI app for Win32 back on Windows 98, it hurt, a lot.
- 1234554321a 2y ago
  “Modern” C++ is completely different to the pre-2000 or even pre-2010 C++.
  - waldrews 2y ago
    For those of us who were last paid to write C++ in a different millenium, suggestions for a book to catch up?
    - adastra22 2y ago
      Yes: https://www.rust-lang.org/learn https://www.rust-lang.org/learn (Less snark: just browse cppreference.com. The standard library is updated to make use of new features, so just check out the changes between C++14, C++17, C++20, etc.)
ffsm8 2y ago
I wish they were a dying breed, but no, you're not. You're just looking at the past with extremely rose tinted glasses. It's way,way easier to implement a UI like in the 90s with hmtl5. You're just trying to make a modern UI with all it's bells in whistles and now complain how complicated it is. The tech ain't any more complicated. The software you're imagining has a waaaay more complicated UI then what you did in the 90s
- coldtea 2y ago
  >You're just looking at the past with extremely rose tinted glasses Dude, some of us still write 90s style code, even Delphi style stuff (FreePascal and Lazarus), and can still compare it everyday to modern web dev. It was better without any "rose tinted glasses" needed. Same for 00s C#/.NET or even "classic" Visual Basic - dead easy to make even an elaborate UI going. >It's way,way easier to implement a UI like in the 90s with hmtl5. No, it really is not. What you're describing is some simple form, as if 90s UIs were constrained to that. >The tech ain't any more complicated. The software you're imagining has a waaaay more complicated UI then what you did in the 90s Not even close to being right. Most web apps including Electron apps are dead simple and primitive functionality wise compared to the 90s (including not having all the functionality one got for free via integration with the OS), but their codebases and dev platforms are still over-engineered and haphazardly-engineered monstrocities. And then there's the resource consumption.
  - ffsm8 2y ago
    You're putting words into my mouth I didn't say: The "modern web stack" has an incredibly high ceiling wrt how complicated it can be. It's floor isn't particularly complicated however, and definitely not higher then the equivalent software with the native APIs from the 90s. You had buttons, inputs, text boxes. Pre-2k UI APIs were extremely limited. Did we even have hover in windows 95/98 or MacOS 9.0? The first time I've seen that was more towards 2010 then 2000 - windows XP/Vista and MacOSX, but it's been a long time since then > No, it really is not. What you're describing is some simple form, as if 90s UIs were constrained to that. Please provide an example then. I sure as hell can't think of one and googling didn't provide me with anything but that.
    - ale42 2y ago
      > Did we even have hover in windows 95/98? Hover how? Changing the appearance of a control when the mouse passes over it? Or having a tooltip appearing? Both can definitely be implemented quite easily. For the tooltip, I just checked on Delphi 2 (which I was using on Win95 ages ago) and it had the Hint and ShowHint properties (as the current VCL/LCL). > Pre-2k UI APIs were extremely limited. But that was largely enough for most GUIs. Nowadays people are putting a full browser (Electron) to create an interface with a few buttons and a progress bar. I'm thinking of an actual application, a relatively famous SD card writing program which weighs something like 200 MB. Make it with native GUI controls and it takes 50 kB (maybe even less) and will not eat the RAM and CPU of the users. Moreover, people are doing fancy GUIs, with the result that no two application look the same, totally confusing some users (Windows itself is a mess, since Windows 8).

piva00 2y ago

But C++ hurts, a lot. My first foray into C++ was trying to write exactly a GUI app for Win32 back on Windows 98, it hurt, a lot.

1234554321a 2y ago
“Modern” C++ is completely different to the pre-2000 or even pre-2010 C++.
- waldrews 2y ago
  For those of us who were last paid to write C++ in a different millenium, suggestions for a book to catch up?
  - adastra22 2y ago
    Yes: https://www.rust-lang.org/learn https://www.rust-lang.org/learn (Less snark: just browse cppreference.com. The standard library is updated to make use of new features, so just check out the changes between C++14, C++17, C++20, etc.)

ffsm8 2y ago

I wish they were a dying breed, but no, you're not. You're just looking at the past with extremely rose tinted glasses. It's way,way easier to implement a UI like in the 90s with hmtl5. You're just trying to make a modern UI with all it's bells in whistles and now complain how complicated it is. The tech ain't any more complicated. The software you're imagining has a waaaay more complicated UI then what you did in the 90s

coldtea 2y ago
>You're just looking at the past with extremely rose tinted glasses Dude, some of us still write 90s style code, even Delphi style stuff (FreePascal and Lazarus), and can still compare it everyday to modern web dev. It was better without any "rose tinted glasses" needed. Same for 00s C#/.NET or even "classic" Visual Basic - dead easy to make even an elaborate UI going. >It's way,way easier to implement a UI like in the 90s with hmtl5. No, it really is not. What you're describing is some simple form, as if 90s UIs were constrained to that. >The tech ain't any more complicated. The software you're imagining has a waaaay more complicated UI then what you did in the 90s Not even close to being right. Most web apps including Electron apps are dead simple and primitive functionality wise compared to the 90s (including not having all the functionality one got for free via integration with the OS), but their codebases and dev platforms are still over-engineered and haphazardly-engineered monstrocities. And then there's the resource consumption.
- ffsm8 2y ago
  You're putting words into my mouth I didn't say: The "modern web stack" has an incredibly high ceiling wrt how complicated it can be. It's floor isn't particularly complicated however, and definitely not higher then the equivalent software with the native APIs from the 90s. You had buttons, inputs, text boxes. Pre-2k UI APIs were extremely limited. Did we even have hover in windows 95/98 or MacOS 9.0? The first time I've seen that was more towards 2010 then 2000 - windows XP/Vista and MacOSX, but it's been a long time since then > No, it really is not. What you're describing is some simple form, as if 90s UIs were constrained to that. Please provide an example then. I sure as hell can't think of one and googling didn't provide me with anything but that.
  - ale42 2y ago
    > Did we even have hover in windows 95/98? Hover how? Changing the appearance of a control when the mouse passes over it? Or having a tooltip appearing? Both can definitely be implemented quite easily. For the tooltip, I just checked on Delphi 2 (which I was using on Win95 ages ago) and it had the Hint and ShowHint properties (as the current VCL/LCL). > Pre-2k UI APIs were extremely limited. But that was largely enough for most GUIs. Nowadays people are putting a full browser (Electron) to create an interface with a few buttons and a progress bar. I'm thinking of an actual application, a relatively famous SD card writing program which weighs something like 200 MB. Make it with native GUI controls and it takes 50 kB (maybe even less) and will not eat the RAM and CPU of the users. Moreover, people are doing fancy GUIs, with the result that no two application look the same, totally confusing some users (Windows itself is a mess, since Windows 8).