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Nope. > 695 Israeli civilians, 71 foreign nationals, and 373 security forces.[165] This data was published in December 2023, using social security data. There

Nope. > 695 Israeli civilians, 71 foreign nationals, and 373 security forces.[165] This data was published in December 2023, using social security data. There are additionally five people classed as missing, including four Israelis.[165] The deaths included 36 children, of whom 20 were under 15 years old and the youngest was a 10-month-old baby. Notice that when you say "security forces" western people don't count them in the same way. We do. Israel has a draft law. These are 18 year old kids that were killed in a surprise attack and we see them in the same way as every civilian murdered. This doesn't include people killed by rocket fire after the 7th or by attacks from Hezbollah. This also ignores the intention, the severity and the cruelty. It ignores the fact that hostages (including women and babies) are still kept in Gaza.

dunekid 2y ago
Sure, are we going to ignore that more Palestinians has been killed till October last year, even without an official war declaration in Gaza and West Bank? There are more hostages including minors, taken by Israel, before and after the said incident.
- invalidname 2y ago
  This isn't a contest of volumes and it's a very false equivalency. Hamas attacked Israel knowing the cost in lives and chose to attack anyway because they don't value human life. Even that of their own people. Israel takes prisoners not hostages and has due process albeit flawed. Everyone arrested is arrested due to something they did. Not taken out of their home or a party. Not raped and murdered. These are not civilians, they are typically criminals. Minors taken by Israel are 16+ unless they did something serious. E.g. two teen girls stabbed a person who they thought was an elderly Jew. Was actually an old Palestinian guy. Obviously Hamas asked to release that murderer. Israel is asking for the release of innocent people while Hamas is asking for the release of mass murderers.
  - dunekid 2y ago
    [flagged]
    - invalidname 2y ago
      [flagged]
      - racional 2y ago
        They required compromise which the Palestinians aren't capable of as a people This is where your post veered from invective into pure and simple racism, unfortunately.
        invalidname 2y ago
        I can see how that can be misinterpreted, that was not my intention. This isn't about race. It's about their social structure and partially about the depth of religion in their society. Also, I think it's a current state. I believe there is hope but it would require a major social shift, for that you need to put external pressure on them to change. Right now all their leaders and wishful leaders are current/former terrorists. To climb to the top you have to prove yourself as a mass murderer. That doesn't yield good leadership skills. But that's only a part of it. The main problem is their Hamula (extended family) structure. Their social order is to a large part dictated by major families that place their allegiance with individual militia. This is problematic, a leader needs to instill fear in the families and yet gain enough support by promising favors for each. The result is deep, rooted, inescapable corruption that tanked the Palestinian authority. Hamas has also robbed billions from the people of Gaza. This sort of environment doesn't allow for compromise. The people who get to the top will be literally murdered by these families if they compromise. Anyone who shows statesmanship and willingness to work is quickly kicked out of the way by this cast system. Don't get me wrong, individual Palestinians do want a proper democracy. But they can't really have it because the power of these forces is too big.
  - esalman 2y ago
    Lies.

dunekid 2y ago

Sure, are we going to ignore that more Palestinians has been killed till October last year, even without an official war declaration in Gaza and West Bank? There are more hostages including minors, taken by Israel, before and after the said incident.

invalidname 2y ago
This isn't a contest of volumes and it's a very false equivalency. Hamas attacked Israel knowing the cost in lives and chose to attack anyway because they don't value human life. Even that of their own people. Israel takes prisoners not hostages and has due process albeit flawed. Everyone arrested is arrested due to something they did. Not taken out of their home or a party. Not raped and murdered. These are not civilians, they are typically criminals. Minors taken by Israel are 16+ unless they did something serious. E.g. two teen girls stabbed a person who they thought was an elderly Jew. Was actually an old Palestinian guy. Obviously Hamas asked to release that murderer. Israel is asking for the release of innocent people while Hamas is asking for the release of mass murderers.
- dunekid 2y ago
  [flagged]
  - invalidname 2y ago
    [flagged]
    - racional 2y ago
      They required compromise which the Palestinians aren't capable of as a people This is where your post veered from invective into pure and simple racism, unfortunately.
      - invalidname 2y ago
        I can see how that can be misinterpreted, that was not my intention. This isn't about race. It's about their social structure and partially about the depth of religion in their society. Also, I think it's a current state. I believe there is hope but it would require a major social shift, for that you need to put external pressure on them to change. Right now all their leaders and wishful leaders are current/former terrorists. To climb to the top you have to prove yourself as a mass murderer. That doesn't yield good leadership skills. But that's only a part of it. The main problem is their Hamula (extended family) structure. Their social order is to a large part dictated by major families that place their allegiance with individual militia. This is problematic, a leader needs to instill fear in the families and yet gain enough support by promising favors for each. The result is deep, rooted, inescapable corruption that tanked the Palestinian authority. Hamas has also robbed billions from the people of Gaza. This sort of environment doesn't allow for compromise. The people who get to the top will be literally murdered by these families if they compromise. Anyone who shows statesmanship and willingness to work is quickly kicked out of the way by this cast system. Don't get me wrong, individual Palestinians do want a proper democracy. But they can't really have it because the power of these forces is too big.
- esalman 2y ago
  Lies.