2 ms·

The locally owned coffee shop is optimizing profits too, just going after a smaller, more niche demographic. Inversely, if everyone wanted cozy shops, that is

The locally owned coffee shop is optimizing profits too, just going after a smaller, more niche demographic. Inversely, if everyone wanted cozy shops, that is exactly what Starbucks would build.

nine_k 2y ago
Everyone may be wanting cozy shops, large apartments, free ice cream, and a pony. Cozy shops bring in much less profit per $ invested. They cannot seriously compete with kiosks, when the majority of customers just want some competently brewed joe on the way to work (or even half-competently, since we mention Starbucks). Maybe a bagel with it. Next customer! A cozy shop with seating for customers who want to sit there and talk for an hour over a $3 cup of coffee each, cannot compete. It can maybe run as a lifestyle business by somebody who loves the craft and does not need much money. But not as an efficient business chain.
- griftrejection 2y ago
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- riehwvfbk 2y ago
  To deal with this, Europe has "anticafes" that charge for time spent by the hour and offer unlimited free coffee (hence the "anti" part).
  - nine_k 2y ago
    Ah, sounds a bit like that specific North American word... coworking? :)
    - riehwvfbk 2y ago
      That word also gets used, somewhat interchangeably (an anticafe will often also mention the word "coworking" in its description, but never the other way around). Coworking places tend to be more like offices with some startups renting permanent spaces and some people dropping in for a day of work. They tend to have real desks and phone booths. Anticafes tend to be more like community spaces with cafe seating, board games galore, and maybe some cats. Both are filled with people on their laptops :)
      - nine_k 2y ago
        Cats! It's a stroke of genius in changing the atmosphere. A small coworking space closest to me is pretty informal, has tables, not desks, but you should bring your own coffee. If they had a cat, it would definitely be an extra attraction.
- shiroiushi 2y ago
  If commercial real estate is cheap enough, an efficient business chain absolutely can do well with a cozy shop. A lot of people don't want a kiosk, and will simply skip it, but will go to a place if it's a cozy shop. Maybe this isn't so popular in modern America these days, but it is in many other places. Here in Tokyo where land prices are huge, all the Starbucks I've seen are still cozy shops, though they do tend to get rather crowded. I don't think a kiosk would work here at all; you can't bring coffee drinks on the train and eating on the sidewalk is rude. But Starbucks is immensely popular and always has a line (along with competing shops like Tully's). So either Americans just don't care much about cozy shops any more, or American commercial real estate rent is too expensive, or some combination of the two are making it unprofitable to have a cozy coffee shop in American cities these days.
  - pixl97 2y ago
    >If commercial real estate is cheap enough, Yea, this is one of the primary problems. Commercial real estate prices are out of control, same with housing.
    - amanaplanacanal 2y ago
      Seems like work from home should eventually make a dent in commercial prices.
  - jfim 2y ago
    > So either Americans just don't care much about cozy shops any more, or American commercial real estate rent is too expensive, or some combination of the two are making it unprofitable to have a cozy coffee shop in American cities these days. It might also be more profitable to operate a location as a kiosk than as a larger cozy shop.
    - shiroiushi 2y ago
      If you re-read my prior comment, my point is that it doesn't have to be this way, and isn't like this in other places. Cozy (but frequently crowded) Starbucks with sit-down seating are extremely common and popular here in Japan. They aren't turning them into kiosks. And this is the very same company that's doing so in America. So I think we should look at other factors instead of just whining about "evil capitalism".

The locally owned coffee shop is optimizing profits too, just going after a smaller, more niche demographic. Inversely, if everyone wanted cozy shops, that is exactly what Starbucks would build.

nine_k 2y ago

Everyone may be wanting cozy shops, large apartments, free ice cream, and a pony. Cozy shops bring in much less profit per $ invested. They cannot seriously compete with kiosks, when the majority of customers just want some competently brewed joe on the way to work (or even half-competently, since we mention Starbucks). Maybe a bagel with it. Next customer! A cozy shop with seating for customers who want to sit there and talk for an hour over a $3 cup of coffee each, cannot compete. It can maybe run as a lifestyle business by somebody who loves the craft and does not need much money. But not as an efficient business chain.

griftrejection 2y ago
[dead]
riehwvfbk 2y ago
To deal with this, Europe has "anticafes" that charge for time spent by the hour and offer unlimited free coffee (hence the "anti" part).
- nine_k 2y ago
  Ah, sounds a bit like that specific North American word... coworking? :)
  - riehwvfbk 2y ago
    That word also gets used, somewhat interchangeably (an anticafe will often also mention the word "coworking" in its description, but never the other way around). Coworking places tend to be more like offices with some startups renting permanent spaces and some people dropping in for a day of work. They tend to have real desks and phone booths. Anticafes tend to be more like community spaces with cafe seating, board games galore, and maybe some cats. Both are filled with people on their laptops :)
    - nine_k 2y ago
      Cats! It's a stroke of genius in changing the atmosphere. A small coworking space closest to me is pretty informal, has tables, not desks, but you should bring your own coffee. If they had a cat, it would definitely be an extra attraction.
shiroiushi 2y ago
If commercial real estate is cheap enough, an efficient business chain absolutely can do well with a cozy shop. A lot of people don't want a kiosk, and will simply skip it, but will go to a place if it's a cozy shop. Maybe this isn't so popular in modern America these days, but it is in many other places. Here in Tokyo where land prices are huge, all the Starbucks I've seen are still cozy shops, though they do tend to get rather crowded. I don't think a kiosk would work here at all; you can't bring coffee drinks on the train and eating on the sidewalk is rude. But Starbucks is immensely popular and always has a line (along with competing shops like Tully's). So either Americans just don't care much about cozy shops any more, or American commercial real estate rent is too expensive, or some combination of the two are making it unprofitable to have a cozy coffee shop in American cities these days.
- pixl97 2y ago
  >If commercial real estate is cheap enough, Yea, this is one of the primary problems. Commercial real estate prices are out of control, same with housing.
  - amanaplanacanal 2y ago
    Seems like work from home should eventually make a dent in commercial prices.
- jfim 2y ago
  > So either Americans just don't care much about cozy shops any more, or American commercial real estate rent is too expensive, or some combination of the two are making it unprofitable to have a cozy coffee shop in American cities these days. It might also be more profitable to operate a location as a kiosk than as a larger cozy shop.
  - shiroiushi 2y ago
    If you re-read my prior comment, my point is that it doesn't have to be this way, and isn't like this in other places. Cozy (but frequently crowded) Starbucks with sit-down seating are extremely common and popular here in Japan. They aren't turning them into kiosks. And this is the very same company that's doing so in America. So I think we should look at other factors instead of just whining about "evil capitalism".