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My guess is that you haven’t worked for the government. I’ve spent 20 years working for multiple government agencies and the one commonality is that they are al

My guess is that you haven’t worked for the government. I’ve spent 20 years working for multiple government agencies and the one commonality is that they are all very wasteful. I’ve spent countless hours working on pet projects for some middle manager or executive who leaves three months later and the project gets scrapped. I’ve seen plenty of passionate developers, both employees and contractors, come in and leave after a year once they’ve understood that no one cares and that they will always be wading through bureaucratic sludge in order to get anything done.

rhelz 2y ago
chuckle My guess is you haven't worked much in the private sector :-) You wouldn't even believe the private jets, yachts, huge bonuses, and other things they spend on which have nothing to do with making money. Why, Elon Musk just got Tesla to pay him $50 billion. For what, exactly?
- tiltowait 2y ago
  The private sector doesn't have a mandate to serve the people and doesn't take money from me at the threat of imprisonment if I don't comply.
- selfmodruntime 2y ago
  The private sector is entirely dependent on the willingness of people to pay them money. Private company revenue is not comparable to tax revenue in orders of magnitude.
  - rhelz 2y ago
    That doesn't mean it is more efficient. The administrative costs of Social Security, for example, are around 1/2%. That compares very favorably with most of the funds in my 401k.
    - selfmodruntime 2y ago
      Great. Now, do military spending. Or, you know, the money the Pentagon just loses every year.
      - 20after4 2y ago
        > the money the Pentagon just loses every year. It is very likely that unaccounted-for money wasn't lost so much as diverted to black budget projects.
        selfmodruntime 2y ago
        A dream for any contractor. Limitless funds, no connection to who spent it and for what.
- blackeyeblitzar 2y ago
  Most companies don’t buy jets and yachts. Implying that is just hyperbole. Even most of the richest companies don’t own or spend on those kinds of luxuries. I’m not sure why you’re lumping “huge bonuses” in with those things - a bonus is usually a necessary expense for talent. All the anger against executive bonuses is mostly from people who simply don’t understand hiring for those kinds of roles. Sure there are some packages that are irresponsible but usually there’s a good reason they are what they are, which is that companies operate in a competitive environment typically and so do candidates. On the other hand government agencies are monopolies whose funding is compelled with threat of violence. As for Musk - he didn’t get Tesla to pay him anything. Shareholders voted and approved this compensation package, twice. When he was given the package initially many years ago, it was worth a lot less. Musk led the company through a 20x gain in value which is why it is worth more now. Shareholders got far more than they ever imagined. But even the targets they set out initially were considered impossible by most, and it was thought to be a very risky deal for Musk and great for everyone else, since he received no cash.
  - rhelz 2y ago
    // Most companies don’t buy jets and yachts // True, but it is also hyperbole to say the government is terminally wasteful. Most departments of the government are very efficient. Social Security, for example, has an administrative overhead of 0.5%. That compares very favorably to any of the funds in my 401k. // Shareholders voted and approved this compensation package, twice. // Just because shareholders voted for it doesn't' mean it's not a big fat waste of money. While we're on the subject, how about Musk paying 2x the real value of Twitter? // ure there are some packages that are irresponsible but usually there’s a good reason they are what they are, // And again, most of what is pilloried as "government waste" usually has a good reason too. To suggest otherwise is hyperbole. // simply don’t understand hiring for those kinds of roles chuckle let me tell you a story about the time I made $25 million in one all-nighter :-) I was working in Manhattan, for a very well-known financial firm. One day I noticed that one of our regulatory filings was going to be late. I told my boss and he said not to worry about it. So I escalated it to his boss--who also told me not to worry about it. I figured that I could regenerate the report and submit it on time, but only if I worked all night. So I did. I was just finishing up at about 8:30am, when the president came to my desk and said "THANKYOU so much for submitting that report!" I thought great--I finally caught the attention of the execs. He came around again at 5:00pm and thanked me again. I thought wow, I'm in. The next day they fired him :-) Turns out, he had a $25 million golden parachute--and one of the conditions was that there were no late regulatory filings....so I worked all night, and he got $25 million. But wait!!! There's more!! in 24 hours, I had gone from the president's favorite--to being the guy who just cost the company $25 million. You can't really fire somebody for obeying the law, but you sure can gaslight the shirt out of them. I eventually had to quit, and I'm still looking for a job. Don't tell me in those condescending tones that I don't know what those bonuses are for. And again, if you think the private sector is some uniformly wonderful example of efficiency you are the one who is out of touch with what goes on in the C-suite.
- kmlx 2y ago
  > My guess is you haven't worked much in the private sector the waste in the private sector is nothing compared to the public sector. you have no idea. > Elon Musk just got Tesla to pay him $50 billion. For what, exactly? for this: https://fortune.com/2021/03/16/elon-musk-net-worth-tesla-stock-tsla-options-compensation-plan/ https://fortune.com/2021/03/16/elon-musk-net-worth-tesla-sto...
  - janalsncm 2y ago
    > you have no idea Does anyone have an idea? I hear this so much but I’ve never seen hard numbers on it.
    - Jtsummers 2y ago
      https://www.govexec.com/oversight/2024/06/why-do-federal-employee-background-checks-take-so-long-panel-points-delayed-it-system/397703/ https://www.govexec.com/oversight/2024/06/why-do-federal-emp... - an example, there are plenty of others. Nearly double the initial budget and 5 years beyond the initial 3 year target. Individually they don't seem so bad, but it's death by a thousand cuts with these things. And that one costs more than the numbers shown. The process to get security clearances can take 12 months or more, time when people may not be able to work on whatever they were hired for, or they may quit rather than sit twiddling their thumbs for a mediocre salary. https://www.gao.gov/reports-testimonies https://www.gao.gov/reports-testimonies - lots of reports here
      - rhelz 2y ago
        No private sector projects ever take longer than expected, or cost more than expected, right? (Especially my projects chuckle) You hear about musk getting 4/50 billion, you say, oh well, its what the shareholders voted for... You hear about stuff that happens in government---yeah, that's what the voters voted for too. Even any fraud which happens: the voters are the one's who determined how much funding the watchdog departments get. But watchdog departments are expensive too, so you've got to trade off. Everybody hates the government but loves their congressman. Probably because he's saying that he's cutting government waste. But if we keep electing the same congressmen over and over, decade after decade, thing's won't change.
- simonsarris 2y ago
  > private jets, yachts, huge bonuses, and other things You are trying to conflate organizations that aim to make money, and do it so efficiently that the organization-owners can buy those things with the proceeds, with what this person is talking about, which are inefficient organizations that do not aim to make money. There is no overlap. For that matter if the inefficient organizations in question were more efficient (required fewer tax revenues to function well), there would be net more yachts, not fewer.
janalsncm 2y ago
The comment you replied to said that some inefficiency is inherent in just being an organization made of humans. We’re not robots. The examples you gave seem serious but don’t suggest the public sector is that much less efficient than the private sector, if at all. Bureaucracy is a reality of most sufficiently sized companies. As another data point, the team events I’ve experienced were dramatically different between sectors. In government, we reserved a local park and had a pot luck. Nominal public cost if any. At another company, they bought $50 baseball tickets for 200 people. Certainly within our rights as a company but it came at the cost of our customers. Not “efficient”.

rhelz 2y ago

chuckle My guess is you haven't worked much in the private sector :-) You wouldn't even believe the private jets, yachts, huge bonuses, and other things they spend on which have nothing to do with making money. Why, Elon Musk just got Tesla to pay him $50 billion. For what, exactly?

tiltowait 2y ago
The private sector doesn't have a mandate to serve the people and doesn't take money from me at the threat of imprisonment if I don't comply.
selfmodruntime 2y ago
The private sector is entirely dependent on the willingness of people to pay them money. Private company revenue is not comparable to tax revenue in orders of magnitude.
- rhelz 2y ago
  That doesn't mean it is more efficient. The administrative costs of Social Security, for example, are around 1/2%. That compares very favorably with most of the funds in my 401k.
  - selfmodruntime 2y ago
    Great. Now, do military spending. Or, you know, the money the Pentagon just loses every year.
    - 20after4 2y ago
      > the money the Pentagon just loses every year. It is very likely that unaccounted-for money wasn't lost so much as diverted to black budget projects.
      - selfmodruntime 2y ago
        A dream for any contractor. Limitless funds, no connection to who spent it and for what.
blackeyeblitzar 2y ago
Most companies don’t buy jets and yachts. Implying that is just hyperbole. Even most of the richest companies don’t own or spend on those kinds of luxuries. I’m not sure why you’re lumping “huge bonuses” in with those things - a bonus is usually a necessary expense for talent. All the anger against executive bonuses is mostly from people who simply don’t understand hiring for those kinds of roles. Sure there are some packages that are irresponsible but usually there’s a good reason they are what they are, which is that companies operate in a competitive environment typically and so do candidates. On the other hand government agencies are monopolies whose funding is compelled with threat of violence. As for Musk - he didn’t get Tesla to pay him anything. Shareholders voted and approved this compensation package, twice. When he was given the package initially many years ago, it was worth a lot less. Musk led the company through a 20x gain in value which is why it is worth more now. Shareholders got far more than they ever imagined. But even the targets they set out initially were considered impossible by most, and it was thought to be a very risky deal for Musk and great for everyone else, since he received no cash.
- rhelz 2y ago
  // Most companies don’t buy jets and yachts // True, but it is also hyperbole to say the government is terminally wasteful. Most departments of the government are very efficient. Social Security, for example, has an administrative overhead of 0.5%. That compares very favorably to any of the funds in my 401k. // Shareholders voted and approved this compensation package, twice. // Just because shareholders voted for it doesn't' mean it's not a big fat waste of money. While we're on the subject, how about Musk paying 2x the real value of Twitter? // ure there are some packages that are irresponsible but usually there’s a good reason they are what they are, // And again, most of what is pilloried as "government waste" usually has a good reason too. To suggest otherwise is hyperbole. // simply don’t understand hiring for those kinds of roles chuckle let me tell you a story about the time I made $25 million in one all-nighter :-) I was working in Manhattan, for a very well-known financial firm. One day I noticed that one of our regulatory filings was going to be late. I told my boss and he said not to worry about it. So I escalated it to his boss--who also told me not to worry about it. I figured that I could regenerate the report and submit it on time, but only if I worked all night. So I did. I was just finishing up at about 8:30am, when the president came to my desk and said "THANKYOU so much for submitting that report!" I thought great--I finally caught the attention of the execs. He came around again at 5:00pm and thanked me again. I thought wow, I'm in. The next day they fired him :-) Turns out, he had a $25 million golden parachute--and one of the conditions was that there were no late regulatory filings....so I worked all night, and he got $25 million. But wait!!! There's more!! in 24 hours, I had gone from the president's favorite--to being the guy who just cost the company $25 million. You can't really fire somebody for obeying the law, but you sure can gaslight the shirt out of them. I eventually had to quit, and I'm still looking for a job. Don't tell me in those condescending tones that I don't know what those bonuses are for. And again, if you think the private sector is some uniformly wonderful example of efficiency you are the one who is out of touch with what goes on in the C-suite.
kmlx 2y ago
> My guess is you haven't worked much in the private sector the waste in the private sector is nothing compared to the public sector. you have no idea. > Elon Musk just got Tesla to pay him $50 billion. For what, exactly? for this: https://fortune.com/2021/03/16/elon-musk-net-worth-tesla-stock-tsla-options-compensation-plan/ https://fortune.com/2021/03/16/elon-musk-net-worth-tesla-sto...
- janalsncm 2y ago
  > you have no idea Does anyone have an idea? I hear this so much but I’ve never seen hard numbers on it.
  - Jtsummers 2y ago
    https://www.govexec.com/oversight/2024/06/why-do-federal-employee-background-checks-take-so-long-panel-points-delayed-it-system/397703/ https://www.govexec.com/oversight/2024/06/why-do-federal-emp... - an example, there are plenty of others. Nearly double the initial budget and 5 years beyond the initial 3 year target. Individually they don't seem so bad, but it's death by a thousand cuts with these things. And that one costs more than the numbers shown. The process to get security clearances can take 12 months or more, time when people may not be able to work on whatever they were hired for, or they may quit rather than sit twiddling their thumbs for a mediocre salary. https://www.gao.gov/reports-testimonies https://www.gao.gov/reports-testimonies - lots of reports here
    - rhelz 2y ago
      No private sector projects ever take longer than expected, or cost more than expected, right? (Especially my projects chuckle) You hear about musk getting 4/50 billion, you say, oh well, its what the shareholders voted for... You hear about stuff that happens in government---yeah, that's what the voters voted for too. Even any fraud which happens: the voters are the one's who determined how much funding the watchdog departments get. But watchdog departments are expensive too, so you've got to trade off. Everybody hates the government but loves their congressman. Probably because he's saying that he's cutting government waste. But if we keep electing the same congressmen over and over, decade after decade, thing's won't change.
simonsarris 2y ago
> private jets, yachts, huge bonuses, and other things You are trying to conflate organizations that aim to make money, and do it so efficiently that the organization-owners can buy those things with the proceeds, with what this person is talking about, which are inefficient organizations that do not aim to make money. There is no overlap. For that matter if the inefficient organizations in question were more efficient (required fewer tax revenues to function well), there would be net more yachts, not fewer.

janalsncm 2y ago

The comment you replied to said that some inefficiency is inherent in just being an organization made of humans. We’re not robots. The examples you gave seem serious but don’t suggest the public sector is that much less efficient than the private sector, if at all. Bureaucracy is a reality of most sufficiently sized companies. As another data point, the team events I’ve experienced were dramatically different between sectors. In government, we reserved a local park and had a pot luck. Nominal public cost if any. At another company, they bought $50 baseball tickets for 200 people. Certainly within our rights as a company but it came at the cost of our customers. Not “efficient”.