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> They did not. There was all sorts of speculation and enough circumstantial evidence to implicate either Russia or (...) depending on what your threshold is.

> They did not. There was all sorts of speculation and enough circumstantial evidence to implicate either Russia or (...) depending on what your threshold is. There was circunstancial evidence implicating Russia, and there is Russia's firehose of falsehood spewing industrial levels of propaganda accusing everyone else ranging from Mickey Mouse to moon nazis. In the meantime, Russian ships were found to have been involved in suspicious movements in the area in the days and months leading up to the blasts. Russia itself started blaming the US and the UK before pointing the firehose of falsehood at Ukraine. Just take a look at how Russia handled its latest bombing of Ukraine's children's hospital. First it was Ukraine, them they admitted they themselves bombed the hospital but it was a military hospital, then it was a children's hospital again but it was a US missile, then it was all propaganda...

reducesuffering 2y ago
I'm very supportive of Ukraine's position in defending themselves and aware of the Kremlin's repeated bullshit claims. However, if I had to bet, I don't think Nordstream 2 was Russia. Sweden and Denmark just concluded their investigations after almost 2 years and if Russia had done it there would've been some implicating evidence. Instead, the reports ended with no conclusion other than it was "complex." I don't believe Seymour Hersh's report to be accurate, but there's a good chance it was US or Ukraine, only for us to find out years later the justification. Time will tell.
- chipdart 2y ago
  > However, if I had to bet, I don't think Nordstream 2 was Russia. Sweden and Denmark just concluded their investigations after almost 2 years and if Russia had done it there would've been some implicating evidence. You should read the reports. Sweden was quite clear on how their investigation was closed because they determined that nothing indicated Sweden or Swedish citizens were involved in the attack, and that Sweden's jurisdiction did not applied anyway. https://www.aklagare.se/en/media/press-releases/2024/february/the-prosecutor-closes-the-swedish-investigation-concerning-gross-sabotage-against-nord-stream/ https://www.aklagare.se/en/media/press-releases/2024/februar... Denmark closed their investigation stating that even though they determined it was an act of sabotage, "there are not sufficient grounds to pursue a criminal case in Denmark". https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/denmark-ends-investigation-into-nord-stream-pipeline-blasts-2024-02-26/ https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/denmark-ends-investigat... > but there's a good chance it was US or Ukraine No, there is only russian propaganda. They started to try to pin the blame on the US and UK, clearly to try to drive a wedge in NATO between continental allies and them, and only afterwards did they came with a bullshit theory involving Ukrainians on a yacht, this time to try to cool down support of Ukraine by EU members in a time when Ukraine needed them the most. In the meantime, we are expected to believe that a theory pieced together involving a couple of Ukrainians in a yacht is plausible while multiple Russian ships loitering over the exact place where the explosions took place we're nothing substantial, particularly when said terrorist somehow kept intact Russia's only working gas pipeline feeding into Europe.
  - reducesuffering 2y ago
    It’s not only Russian propaganda. US Intel sources too. https://www.reuters.com/world/us-had-intelligence-ukrainian-plan-attack-nord-stream-pipeline-washington-post-2023-06-06/ https://www.reuters.com/world/us-had-intelligence-ukrainian-... https://www.nytimes.com/2023/03/07/us/politics/nord-stream-pipeline-sabotage-ukraine.html https://www.nytimes.com/2023/03/07/us/politics/nord-stream-p... I can’t possibly conclude one way or the other, but I don’t think you should either, as much as this whole war is Russia’s ultimate fault anyway

reducesuffering 2y ago

I'm very supportive of Ukraine's position in defending themselves and aware of the Kremlin's repeated bullshit claims. However, if I had to bet, I don't think Nordstream 2 was Russia. Sweden and Denmark just concluded their investigations after almost 2 years and if Russia had done it there would've been some implicating evidence. Instead, the reports ended with no conclusion other than it was "complex." I don't believe Seymour Hersh's report to be accurate, but there's a good chance it was US or Ukraine, only for us to find out years later the justification. Time will tell.

chipdart 2y ago
> However, if I had to bet, I don't think Nordstream 2 was Russia. Sweden and Denmark just concluded their investigations after almost 2 years and if Russia had done it there would've been some implicating evidence. You should read the reports. Sweden was quite clear on how their investigation was closed because they determined that nothing indicated Sweden or Swedish citizens were involved in the attack, and that Sweden's jurisdiction did not applied anyway. https://www.aklagare.se/en/media/press-releases/2024/february/the-prosecutor-closes-the-swedish-investigation-concerning-gross-sabotage-against-nord-stream/ https://www.aklagare.se/en/media/press-releases/2024/februar... Denmark closed their investigation stating that even though they determined it was an act of sabotage, "there are not sufficient grounds to pursue a criminal case in Denmark". https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/denmark-ends-investigation-into-nord-stream-pipeline-blasts-2024-02-26/ https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/denmark-ends-investigat... > but there's a good chance it was US or Ukraine No, there is only russian propaganda. They started to try to pin the blame on the US and UK, clearly to try to drive a wedge in NATO between continental allies and them, and only afterwards did they came with a bullshit theory involving Ukrainians on a yacht, this time to try to cool down support of Ukraine by EU members in a time when Ukraine needed them the most. In the meantime, we are expected to believe that a theory pieced together involving a couple of Ukrainians in a yacht is plausible while multiple Russian ships loitering over the exact place where the explosions took place we're nothing substantial, particularly when said terrorist somehow kept intact Russia's only working gas pipeline feeding into Europe.
- reducesuffering 2y ago
  It’s not only Russian propaganda. US Intel sources too. https://www.reuters.com/world/us-had-intelligence-ukrainian-plan-attack-nord-stream-pipeline-washington-post-2023-06-06/ https://www.reuters.com/world/us-had-intelligence-ukrainian-... https://www.nytimes.com/2023/03/07/us/politics/nord-stream-pipeline-sabotage-ukraine.html https://www.nytimes.com/2023/03/07/us/politics/nord-stream-p... I can’t possibly conclude one way or the other, but I don’t think you should either, as much as this whole war is Russia’s ultimate fault anyway