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Hi, Lead Dev of WebVM and CTO of Leaning Technologies here. Happy to answer any questions you might have... potentially in a few hours, it's quite late here :-)

Hi, Lead Dev of WebVM and CTO of Leaning Technologies here. Happy to answer any questions you might have... potentially in a few hours, it's quite late here :-) Even better, consider joining our Discord: https://discord.gg/yTNZgySKGa https://discord.gg/yTNZgySKGa

debarshri 2y ago
Hello there, I havent tried webvm yet but looks similar to v86. There were lot of network related challenges working with v86, for eg. You cant do curl, DNS resolution does not work out of the box. How did you address these challenges in webvm. I think it is very interesting and exciting what you guys are building.
- apignotti 2y ago
  We support networking via Tailscale, we wrote a detailed blog post some time ago: https://labs.leaningtech.com/blog/webvm-virtual-machine-with-networking-via-tailscale https://labs.leaningtech.com/blog/webvm-virtual-machine-with...
theanonymousone 2y ago
Hi and thanks for the effort. Is there a roadmap for supporting GUI applications?
- apignotti 2y ago
  Yes, we are working on it right now. The immediate priority is booting a complete desktop environment. Next steps will include 3D graphics.
  - mcnesium 2y ago
    What are some use cases for this?
    - apignotti 2y ago
      The technology is extremely flexibile, off the top of my head: * Education (Linux, Programming, Security, ...) * Live docs for arbitrary languages and binary libraries * Preservation of historical software and games * Virtualization of legacy Windows enterprise apps. * Dev environment for Web IDEs Just a few examples, the list could go on for long
      - koolala 2y ago
        You want it to be 3D!! Loading this is a multiplayer social VR sandboxed WebXR environment would be so amazing one day! I wonder if it could all run off-thread in a Worker and one day maybe use webGPU to update textures async! I hope computers can be fun and care free like a game one day and AI companions will let people learn and do anything! Thanks for working to make this!
bilekas 2y ago
Hi thanks for taking part! I have probably very silly questions but why? What are the use cases you Invision? Last but not least, an IRC server/channel in lieu of discord? I'm stuck in my ways! Nice work too, I hope this doesn't come across as flippant. EDIT: Side note, I opened vi and escape is.. well maybe a browser issue but 'cant exit vi' .. Never thought id say that again
- jgraham20 2y ago
  May it is a browser issue. I was able to exit with ':q<Enter>'
  - bilekas 2y ago
    Right, I can go to insert mode, but to leave is, tricky. I found going to replace mode and escape worked in FF. I'm sure its a browser issue, I also have vimium so probably a nightmare of hooks!
    - eonpi 2y ago
      Have you tried with <Control-Left Square Bracket>? aka Ctrl-[, or ^[, as seen sometimes in the terminal. This works for me in most terminals as an alternative to Escape when using vi/vim.
  - kuekacang 2y ago
    In mobile (at least in mine, firefox) the input become buferred autocomplete and when accepted via return, the typed word gets duplicated before entered. Workaround is to accept via space and delete as necessary
- zja 2y ago
  Answer to the second question is that no one uses IRC. The trend of using discord over forums does suck though, it’s really hard to search old discussions.
  - bilekas 2y ago
d_philla 2y ago
Hey Alessandro - I'm a huge fan of WebVM + y'all's other work at Leaning Tech. Curious - is your implementation of how you wrangled lwIP for the networking piece open source? I had previously read the article you linked elsewhere, re: networking, but would love to see the specifics of your approach there.
- apignotti 2y ago
  All the components of the network stack are open source: namely the Tailscale go client and the lwip networking stack. Some (not fully trivial) glue code is also required, which is not currently published. We do plan to cleanup the stack and release it as one of our upcoming internship projects.
koolala 2y ago
Are you associated with Tail Scale? Is Tail Scale like a proxy? Are other options available - is Tail Scale open source too? edit: Saw your other reply! https://labs.leaningtech.com/blog/webvm-virtual-machine-with-networking-via-tailscale https://labs.leaningtech.com/blog/webvm-virtual-machine-with...
pmontra 2y ago
I tested in Firefox on Linux. It works well except: 1. Copy and paste does not work and this could be bad for basically every editing task (programming etc). 2. The screen freezes sometimes and keypresses don't appear. Usually pressing backspace unfreezes the screen. Firefox about:performance doesn't show any CPU usage in the tab. Linux's htop (on my machine) doesn't show anything strange with Firefox. And a question: I saw that new files persist after closing the tab and opening it again. I didn't investigate my localstorage etc with Developer Tools. Did you use that or some other browser feature? How truly persistent are those files?
- apignotti 2y ago
  1. Support for traditional copy/paste shortcuts is problematic, since Ctrl-C is interpreted as the SIGINT signal. Copying via the mouse menu should work. Pasting is supported via Ctrl+Shift+V. 2. We had these reported from several users and we will investigate as soon as we can: https://github.com/leaningtech/webvm/issues/102 https://github.com/leaningtech/webvm/issues/102 To answer you question: filesystem chunks are cached/persisted using a local IndexedDB. It provides a fairly strong level of persistence, although the user can wipe it out of course.
  - pmontra 2y ago
    Thanks for the reply. Copy&paste via menu works (I didn't think about it) and Ctrl+Shift+V works too. Ctrl+Shift+C opens Firefox's Developer Tools. It's difficult to find a reasonable shortcut.
    - efreak 2y ago
      > it's difficult to find a reasonable shortcut I don't believe I've ever seen Ctrl+insert and shift+insert makes to anything _other_ than copy and paste.
      - pmontra 2y ago
        It works in GNOME Terminal on Linux too. I had no idea of that shortcut. Thanks. Why have everybody kept using Ctrl-Shift-C and Ctrl-Shift-V since forever included myself?
osrec 2y ago
Could it be possible to run containers within this environment? I ask because I personally think we are headed towards a future where web browsers are just sandboxed container environments where we download and run containers for each app... Eventually, even calling them "web" browsers might feel a little odd, almost the way in which we "dial" a phone number today, even though we now mostly key it in on a touch screen.
- apignotti 2y ago
  Well, the environment itself is a container. Supporting Linux "namespaces" used to implement containers is also a possibility. As described in the project README we provide a GitHub Action workflow to convert Dockerfiles into bootable images for WebVM: https://github.com/leaningtech/webvm https://github.com/leaningtech/webvm

debarshri 2y ago

Hello there, I havent tried webvm yet but looks similar to v86. There were lot of network related challenges working with v86, for eg. You cant do curl, DNS resolution does not work out of the box. How did you address these challenges in webvm. I think it is very interesting and exciting what you guys are building.

apignotti 2y ago
We support networking via Tailscale, we wrote a detailed blog post some time ago: https://labs.leaningtech.com/blog/webvm-virtual-machine-with-networking-via-tailscale https://labs.leaningtech.com/blog/webvm-virtual-machine-with...

theanonymousone 2y ago

Hi and thanks for the effort. Is there a roadmap for supporting GUI applications?

apignotti 2y ago
Yes, we are working on it right now. The immediate priority is booting a complete desktop environment. Next steps will include 3D graphics.
- mcnesium 2y ago
  What are some use cases for this?
  - apignotti 2y ago
    The technology is extremely flexibile, off the top of my head: * Education (Linux, Programming, Security, ...) * Live docs for arbitrary languages and binary libraries * Preservation of historical software and games * Virtualization of legacy Windows enterprise apps. * Dev environment for Web IDEs Just a few examples, the list could go on for long
    - koolala 2y ago
      You want it to be 3D!! Loading this is a multiplayer social VR sandboxed WebXR environment would be so amazing one day! I wonder if it could all run off-thread in a Worker and one day maybe use webGPU to update textures async! I hope computers can be fun and care free like a game one day and AI companions will let people learn and do anything! Thanks for working to make this!

bilekas 2y ago

Hi thanks for taking part! I have probably very silly questions but why? What are the use cases you Invision? Last but not least, an IRC server/channel in lieu of discord? I'm stuck in my ways! Nice work too, I hope this doesn't come across as flippant. EDIT: Side note, I opened vi and escape is.. well maybe a browser issue but 'cant exit vi' .. Never thought id say that again

jgraham20 2y ago
May it is a browser issue. I was able to exit with ':q<Enter>'
- bilekas 2y ago
  Right, I can go to insert mode, but to leave is, tricky. I found going to replace mode and escape worked in FF. I'm sure its a browser issue, I also have vimium so probably a nightmare of hooks!
  - eonpi 2y ago
    Have you tried with <Control-Left Square Bracket>? aka Ctrl-[, or ^[, as seen sometimes in the terminal. This works for me in most terminals as an alternative to Escape when using vi/vim.
- kuekacang 2y ago
  In mobile (at least in mine, firefox) the input become buferred autocomplete and when accepted via return, the typed word gets duplicated before entered. Workaround is to accept via space and delete as necessary
zja 2y ago
Answer to the second question is that no one uses IRC. The trend of using discord over forums does suck though, it’s really hard to search old discussions.
- bilekas 2y ago

d_philla 2y ago

Hey Alessandro - I'm a huge fan of WebVM + y'all's other work at Leaning Tech. Curious - is your implementation of how you wrangled lwIP for the networking piece open source? I had previously read the article you linked elsewhere, re: networking, but would love to see the specifics of your approach there.

apignotti 2y ago
All the components of the network stack are open source: namely the Tailscale go client and the lwip networking stack. Some (not fully trivial) glue code is also required, which is not currently published. We do plan to cleanup the stack and release it as one of our upcoming internship projects.

koolala 2y ago

Are you associated with Tail Scale? Is Tail Scale like a proxy? Are other options available - is Tail Scale open source too? edit: Saw your other reply! https://labs.leaningtech.com/blog/webvm-virtual-machine-with-networking-via-tailscale https://labs.leaningtech.com/blog/webvm-virtual-machine-with...

pmontra 2y ago

I tested in Firefox on Linux. It works well except: 1. Copy and paste does not work and this could be bad for basically every editing task (programming etc). 2. The screen freezes sometimes and keypresses don't appear. Usually pressing backspace unfreezes the screen. Firefox about:performance doesn't show any CPU usage in the tab. Linux's htop (on my machine) doesn't show anything strange with Firefox. And a question: I saw that new files persist after closing the tab and opening it again. I didn't investigate my localstorage etc with Developer Tools. Did you use that or some other browser feature? How truly persistent are those files?

apignotti 2y ago
1. Support for traditional copy/paste shortcuts is problematic, since Ctrl-C is interpreted as the SIGINT signal. Copying via the mouse menu should work. Pasting is supported via Ctrl+Shift+V. 2. We had these reported from several users and we will investigate as soon as we can: https://github.com/leaningtech/webvm/issues/102 https://github.com/leaningtech/webvm/issues/102 To answer you question: filesystem chunks are cached/persisted using a local IndexedDB. It provides a fairly strong level of persistence, although the user can wipe it out of course.
- pmontra 2y ago
  Thanks for the reply. Copy&paste via menu works (I didn't think about it) and Ctrl+Shift+V works too. Ctrl+Shift+C opens Firefox's Developer Tools. It's difficult to find a reasonable shortcut.
  - efreak 2y ago
    > it's difficult to find a reasonable shortcut I don't believe I've ever seen Ctrl+insert and shift+insert makes to anything _other_ than copy and paste.
    - pmontra 2y ago
      It works in GNOME Terminal on Linux too. I had no idea of that shortcut. Thanks. Why have everybody kept using Ctrl-Shift-C and Ctrl-Shift-V since forever included myself?

osrec 2y ago

Could it be possible to run containers within this environment? I ask because I personally think we are headed towards a future where web browsers are just sandboxed container environments where we download and run containers for each app... Eventually, even calling them "web" browsers might feel a little odd, almost the way in which we "dial" a phone number today, even though we now mostly key it in on a touch screen.

apignotti 2y ago
Well, the environment itself is a container. Supporting Linux "namespaces" used to implement containers is also a possibility. As described in the project README we provide a GitHub Action workflow to convert Dockerfiles into bootable images for WebVM: https://github.com/leaningtech/webvm https://github.com/leaningtech/webvm