6 ms·

US and Germany foiled Russian plot to assassinate CEO of arms manufacturer

80 points by dralley 2y ago

itsoktocry 2y ago
>“We’re seeing sabotage, we’re seeing assassination plots, we’re seeing arson. We’re seeing things that have a cost in human lives,” a senior NATO official told reporters on Tuesday. “I believe very much that we’re seeing a campaign of covert sabotage activities from Russia that have strategic consequences.” Uh, yeah, they are literally at war. Is this the next stage of trying to rope NATO into this?
- dralley 2y ago
  The quote is regarding operations taking place in Europe, not Ukraine. This kind of thing has been happening for a long time actually. Russia blew up Czech ammunition depots in 2014 (killing two Czechs), tried to poison Bulgarian execs with nerve agents in 2015, etc. But it's getting much bolder and much harder to ignore, as much as Western politicians would like to ignore it.
- morbicer 2y ago
  I don't follow your line of reasoning. They are in war so we (members of Nato) should dig our heads in the sand or what? As sibling comment says, they are bolder because they feel our reactions are lukewarm.
- qsdf38100 2y ago
  Yes, they are at war, they are all-in, while we are not. Maybe it’s time to consider we are at war too? How long are we going to let them wage information war, sabotage, political interference and corruption against us? They talk on state sponsored TV about nuking London, invading Europe, while we carefully consider whether Ukraine should be allowed to retaliate against Russian air bases that target civilians in purpose? Not to mention they are about to get a Russian asset elected POTUS.
  - rightbyte 2y ago
    [flagged]
jasonvorhe 2y ago
[flagged]
- everybodyknows 2y ago
  > CNN et al also claimed knowing it was Russia. They did? Source?
  - dralley 2y ago
    They did not. There was all sorts of speculation and enough circumstantial evidence to implicate either Russia or Ukraine or the US depending on what your threshold is.
    - riehwvfbk 2y ago
      CNN has this trademark way of saying what they want to say while maintaining plausible deniability precisely so that people can write the above comment. Politico seems to have the same editor. Usually it goes like this: axis of evil horrible rouge state X has done bad things in the past and we all know how they are bad. There is some evidence to suggest they are at it again. Totally compromised person you shouldn't trust (and did we mention their horrible fashion sense?) suggested it may not have been rouge country X. There is no consensus.
    - chipdart 2y ago
      > They did not. There was all sorts of speculation and enough circumstantial evidence to implicate either Russia or (...) depending on what your threshold is. There was circunstancial evidence implicating Russia, and there is Russia's firehose of falsehood spewing industrial levels of propaganda accusing everyone else ranging from Mickey Mouse to moon nazis. In the meantime, Russian ships were found to have been involved in suspicious movements in the area in the days and months leading up to the blasts. Russia itself started blaming the US and the UK before pointing the firehose of falsehood at Ukraine. Just take a look at how Russia handled its latest bombing of Ukraine's children's hospital. First it was Ukraine, them they admitted they themselves bombed the hospital but it was a military hospital, then it was a children's hospital again but it was a US missile, then it was all propaganda...
bdjsiqoocwk 2y ago
[flagged]
ProjectArcturis 2y ago
Russia has famously poisoned or otherwise assassinated countless dissidents and political opponents. But as far as I can tell, they have never openly killed a NATO citizen in a NATO country. That would be a substantial bridge to cross, and I expect there would need to be retribution for such an act.
- willy_k 2y ago
  I don’t know if this counts as “openly”, and he was naturalized, not native born, but Alexander Litvinenko was a British citizen poisoned in London. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexander_Litvinenko https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexander_Litvinenko
  - ProjectArcturis 2y ago
    Ah, I didn't realize Litvinenko had been naturalized.
  - deleted 2y ago
    [deleted]
- dralley 2y ago
  Two Czechs were killed when the Russians blew up a Czech ammunition depot in 2014. That's about as open as this is. You could maybe argue it was incidental rather than intended, like the woman killed in the botched Salisbury poisoning, but it's a natural outcome of these kinds of plots.
- 4rt 2y ago
  Dawn Sturgess was a british civilian killed by russian nerve agent on british soil in a botched attempt to kill Sergei Skripal a russian/british dual national (spy/double agent). Alexander Litvinenko was a russian/british citiizen and killed with polonium poisoning on british soil (journalist).
- worstspotgain 2y ago
  Back when they were the USSR, their thinly-veiled proxies (such as [1]) murdered and blew things up in the West into the 1980s. The radical left and radical right were equal-opportunity puppets. I have a pet conjecture that they might have actually murdered FDR too, though he was so frail that it probably only took a 'pat on the back' in Yalta [4] (unlike their first try on Navalny [2] and Yushchenko [3].) Unlucky for them, Truman ended up being a much tougher rival than FDR would have been, IMO. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_Army_Faction https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_Army_Faction [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poisoning_of_Alexei_Navalny https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poisoning_of_Alexei_Navalny [3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Viktor_Yushchenko https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Viktor_Yushchenko [4] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yalta_Conference https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yalta_Conference
j0hnyl 2y ago
How is this not an act of war against Germany?
- aiauthoritydev 2y ago
  It is. But what can Germany do about it ? Nothing.
  - tim333 2y ago
    There are things Germany could do. Taurus missiles to Ukraine would be one.
    - aiauthoritydev 2y ago
      But that would provoke Russia and would lead to WW3. (Tongue in Cheek). My reading is that German elites are deeply compromised and probably on take from Russians. Either through money or through blackmail or through sheer fear. When taking a stand against Russia vs caving into Russian demands, I think Germany will fold and cave in to Russian demands.
      - karp773 2y ago
        Not anymore, it seems.
      - worstspotgain 2y ago
        Merkel was famously soft on Putin. She was definitely an apologist and perhaps a pocket ally. [1] While she was in power the AfD (the Russians' populist proxy party) was curiously held at bay at the polls. She's tied for second longest-serving chancellor after Bismarck. The new chancellor Scholz is much less Russian-friendly. Perhaps unsurprisingly, his favorability numbers are in the gutter and the AfD is surging. [1] https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/mar/05/germany-angela-merkel-power-to-vladimir-putin-russia https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/mar/05/germany-angela...
    - nathanaldensr 2y ago
aiauthoritydev 2y ago
At the core of the Russia-Ukraine war there is something that we should all be somewhat concerned about. It is clear that USA remains an economic, cultural, moral and even spiritual powerhouse as other civilizations go through all sort of turbulence. By virtue of this, other "western" value nations like EU nations, Japan, Australia, South Korea etc. are doing well and likely to do well and benefit. Together we beat covid, invented magic pills for obesity, moved towards cheaper and better energy sources and kept our institutions strong. Even the Islamic and north african immigrants did not cause any collapse that our enemies planned for us. People around the world continue to line up to immigrate to west legally or illegally. It is a huge success for us. Now, we have AI. With few more gains this can transform our economy and way of life like nothing else. I see Russia, China, India and Arab world feel depressed about this that there is nothing they can do about this. They will not be able to catch up with us ever. They take pride in being "thousand year old civilization" but they are being outfoxxed by bunch of cowboys and LGBTQ folks at every step Russia-Ukraine war or Chinese war on Taiwan is not just a local war but rather an act of desperation from these states due to the realization that their culture and society is a loser culture and society. I expect this sort of assassination attempts to be on rise now.
- nathanaldensr 2y ago
  I agree with your second and third paragraphs, but I encourage you to realize that AI does not exist--not in the form you're implying by predicting transformative technology. AI has not made a meaningful impact in nearly anyone's lives, let alone a transformative impact; instead, it's just the latest VC money sink, hype train, bubble, or whatever you want to call it. The West is a great place to live not because of AI but because of consistency of experience (e.g., first-world infrastructure for the most part) and higher quality of life, "AI" or no AI.
- dralley 2y ago
  This is total nonsense. Putin does not care about AI, by all accounts he doesn't even use technology much personally, he cares about being remembered as a Peter the Great figure who restored Russia to their rightful place as a superpower. It's just bog-standard nationalism of a kind we've seen dozens of times before.
josefritzishere 2y ago
There is a layer of abstraction between warring nation states. In the case of Ukraine you can argue it's a proxy-war, a seconf layer of abstraction. There is an unthinkable future in the possibility of nation states directly targeting the Corporations that fuel war.
rainworld 2y ago
[flagged]

80 points by dralley 2y ago

>“We’re seeing sabotage, we’re seeing assassination plots, we’re seeing arson. We’re seeing things that have a cost in human lives,” a senior NATO official told reporters on Tuesday. “I believe very much that we’re seeing a campaign of covert sabotage activities from Russia that have strategic consequences.” Uh, yeah, they are literally at war. Is this the next stage of trying to rope NATO into this?

dralley 2y ago
The quote is regarding operations taking place in Europe, not Ukraine. This kind of thing has been happening for a long time actually. Russia blew up Czech ammunition depots in 2014 (killing two Czechs), tried to poison Bulgarian execs with nerve agents in 2015, etc. But it's getting much bolder and much harder to ignore, as much as Western politicians would like to ignore it.
morbicer 2y ago
I don't follow your line of reasoning. They are in war so we (members of Nato) should dig our heads in the sand or what? As sibling comment says, they are bolder because they feel our reactions are lukewarm.
qsdf38100 2y ago
Yes, they are at war, they are all-in, while we are not. Maybe it’s time to consider we are at war too? How long are we going to let them wage information war, sabotage, political interference and corruption against us? They talk on state sponsored TV about nuking London, invading Europe, while we carefully consider whether Ukraine should be allowed to retaliate against Russian air bases that target civilians in purpose? Not to mention they are about to get a Russian asset elected POTUS.
- rightbyte 2y ago
  [flagged]

jasonvorhe 2y ago

[flagged]

everybodyknows 2y ago
> CNN et al also claimed knowing it was Russia. They did? Source?
- dralley 2y ago
  They did not. There was all sorts of speculation and enough circumstantial evidence to implicate either Russia or Ukraine or the US depending on what your threshold is.
  - riehwvfbk 2y ago
    CNN has this trademark way of saying what they want to say while maintaining plausible deniability precisely so that people can write the above comment. Politico seems to have the same editor. Usually it goes like this: axis of evil horrible rouge state X has done bad things in the past and we all know how they are bad. There is some evidence to suggest they are at it again. Totally compromised person you shouldn't trust (and did we mention their horrible fashion sense?) suggested it may not have been rouge country X. There is no consensus.
  - chipdart 2y ago
    > They did not. There was all sorts of speculation and enough circumstantial evidence to implicate either Russia or (...) depending on what your threshold is. There was circunstancial evidence implicating Russia, and there is Russia's firehose of falsehood spewing industrial levels of propaganda accusing everyone else ranging from Mickey Mouse to moon nazis. In the meantime, Russian ships were found to have been involved in suspicious movements in the area in the days and months leading up to the blasts. Russia itself started blaming the US and the UK before pointing the firehose of falsehood at Ukraine. Just take a look at how Russia handled its latest bombing of Ukraine's children's hospital. First it was Ukraine, them they admitted they themselves bombed the hospital but it was a military hospital, then it was a children's hospital again but it was a US missile, then it was all propaganda...

bdjsiqoocwk 2y ago

[flagged]

ProjectArcturis 2y ago

Russia has famously poisoned or otherwise assassinated countless dissidents and political opponents. But as far as I can tell, they have never openly killed a NATO citizen in a NATO country. That would be a substantial bridge to cross, and I expect there would need to be retribution for such an act.

willy_k 2y ago
I don’t know if this counts as “openly”, and he was naturalized, not native born, but Alexander Litvinenko was a British citizen poisoned in London. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexander_Litvinenko https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexander_Litvinenko
- ProjectArcturis 2y ago
  Ah, I didn't realize Litvinenko had been naturalized.
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
dralley 2y ago
Two Czechs were killed when the Russians blew up a Czech ammunition depot in 2014. That's about as open as this is. You could maybe argue it was incidental rather than intended, like the woman killed in the botched Salisbury poisoning, but it's a natural outcome of these kinds of plots.
4rt 2y ago
Dawn Sturgess was a british civilian killed by russian nerve agent on british soil in a botched attempt to kill Sergei Skripal a russian/british dual national (spy/double agent). Alexander Litvinenko was a russian/british citiizen and killed with polonium poisoning on british soil (journalist).
worstspotgain 2y ago
Back when they were the USSR, their thinly-veiled proxies (such as [1]) murdered and blew things up in the West into the 1980s. The radical left and radical right were equal-opportunity puppets. I have a pet conjecture that they might have actually murdered FDR too, though he was so frail that it probably only took a 'pat on the back' in Yalta [4] (unlike their first try on Navalny [2] and Yushchenko [3].) Unlucky for them, Truman ended up being a much tougher rival than FDR would have been, IMO. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_Army_Faction https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_Army_Faction [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poisoning_of_Alexei_Navalny https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poisoning_of_Alexei_Navalny [3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Viktor_Yushchenko https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Viktor_Yushchenko [4] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yalta_Conference https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yalta_Conference

j0hnyl 2y ago

How is this not an act of war against Germany?

aiauthoritydev 2y ago
It is. But what can Germany do about it ? Nothing.
- tim333 2y ago
  There are things Germany could do. Taurus missiles to Ukraine would be one.
  - aiauthoritydev 2y ago
    But that would provoke Russia and would lead to WW3. (Tongue in Cheek). My reading is that German elites are deeply compromised and probably on take from Russians. Either through money or through blackmail or through sheer fear. When taking a stand against Russia vs caving into Russian demands, I think Germany will fold and cave in to Russian demands.
    - karp773 2y ago
      Not anymore, it seems.
    - worstspotgain 2y ago
      Merkel was famously soft on Putin. She was definitely an apologist and perhaps a pocket ally. [1] While she was in power the AfD (the Russians' populist proxy party) was curiously held at bay at the polls. She's tied for second longest-serving chancellor after Bismarck. The new chancellor Scholz is much less Russian-friendly. Perhaps unsurprisingly, his favorability numbers are in the gutter and the AfD is surging. [1] https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/mar/05/germany-angela-merkel-power-to-vladimir-putin-russia https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/mar/05/germany-angela...
  - nathanaldensr 2y ago

aiauthoritydev 2y ago

At the core of the Russia-Ukraine war there is something that we should all be somewhat concerned about. It is clear that USA remains an economic, cultural, moral and even spiritual powerhouse as other civilizations go through all sort of turbulence. By virtue of this, other "western" value nations like EU nations, Japan, Australia, South Korea etc. are doing well and likely to do well and benefit. Together we beat covid, invented magic pills for obesity, moved towards cheaper and better energy sources and kept our institutions strong. Even the Islamic and north african immigrants did not cause any collapse that our enemies planned for us. People around the world continue to line up to immigrate to west legally or illegally. It is a huge success for us. Now, we have AI. With few more gains this can transform our economy and way of life like nothing else. I see Russia, China, India and Arab world feel depressed about this that there is nothing they can do about this. They will not be able to catch up with us ever. They take pride in being "thousand year old civilization" but they are being outfoxxed by bunch of cowboys and LGBTQ folks at every step Russia-Ukraine war or Chinese war on Taiwan is not just a local war but rather an act of desperation from these states due to the realization that their culture and society is a loser culture and society. I expect this sort of assassination attempts to be on rise now.

nathanaldensr 2y ago
I agree with your second and third paragraphs, but I encourage you to realize that AI does not exist--not in the form you're implying by predicting transformative technology. AI has not made a meaningful impact in nearly anyone's lives, let alone a transformative impact; instead, it's just the latest VC money sink, hype train, bubble, or whatever you want to call it. The West is a great place to live not because of AI but because of consistency of experience (e.g., first-world infrastructure for the most part) and higher quality of life, "AI" or no AI.
dralley 2y ago
This is total nonsense. Putin does not care about AI, by all accounts he doesn't even use technology much personally, he cares about being remembered as a Peter the Great figure who restored Russia to their rightful place as a superpower. It's just bog-standard nationalism of a kind we've seen dozens of times before.

josefritzishere 2y ago

There is a layer of abstraction between warring nation states. In the case of Ukraine you can argue it's a proxy-war, a seconf layer of abstraction. There is an unthinkable future in the possibility of nation states directly targeting the Corporations that fuel war.

rainworld 2y ago

[flagged]