4 ms·

There was no M3 iPad so the question is incorrect. But if you’re talking compared to the M2, it has a number of updates 1. Significant performance and efficie

by dagmx 2y ago

There was no M3 iPad so the question is incorrect. But if you’re talking compared to the M2, it has a number of updates 1. Significant performance and efficiency gains 2. New GPU with raytracing and mesh shading , and much higher performance. 3. AV1 decode 4. New display controllers required for the new tandem OLED 5. Huge upgrade to the neural engine I’m sure I’m missing stuff, but the M4 iPad Pro is a legitimate step up from the M2 for capabilities. Unless you fall in the camp of it being just a media consumption device

Rinzler89 2y ago
Sure, those are nice improvements, no question about it, but none of those change the iPad fundaments or unlock new possibilities for it, which is that it wasn't previously compute limited but limited by iPad OS. It's also not just my opinion but almost all users who reviewed the M4 iPad Pro, like MKBHD, calling it a overpriced Netflix machine.
- dagmx 2y ago
  I mean, if your question is “what new capabilities did it unlock?” then doesn’t that apply to the whole CPU market? Did any of the stuff you mentioned you do has fundamentally changed in desktop in the last decade +. People like faster and snappier things. Along with that the new hardware unlocks the use of tandem oleds which is a big change for HDR creation and color accuracy. They go hand in hand. A lot of people create on iPads. I used to work in film and almost all my concept art friends have shifted over to iPad. A lot of my on set friends use it for on set management of content, visualization and rushes. The reviewers you mentioned don’t use the device that way. Would I similarly be right in taking their opinion about how niche it is to run Linux? Like this argument you’re proposing just boils down to “it doesn’t solve my needs and therefore I can’t imagine it solving other people’s needs”
  - Rinzler89 2y ago
    >Like this argument you’re proposing just boils down to “it doesn’t solve my needs and therefore I can’t imagine it solving other people’s needs” I never said that. I asked what needs does the M4 solve that the M3/2 couldn't? I asked that because people keep bring up the M4 in discussion, arguing against X86/Qualcomm chips, how they're slower than Apple's latest M4 chips, and for that I counteract with the fact that for a lot of cases the M4's extra performance over x86/Qualcomm is irelevant since X86/Qualcomm chips solve different and a lot more diverse problems that the highly restrictive and niche problems the iPad solves. And it's not me, because those are not my needs, I don't compile the linux kernel or doe CAD/CAE, or microbiology simulations but those to me (and to society and humanity) those are still more important than movie writers having a slightly faster iPad for drafts, since it's not like that was the reasons most movies suck nowadays.
    - ben_w 2y ago
      > I never said that. I asked what needs does the M4 solve that the M3/2 couldn't? I asked that because people keep bring up the M4 in discussion, arguing against X86/Qualcomm chips, how they're slower than Apple's latest M4 chips, and for that I counteract with the fact that for a lot of cases the M4's extra performance over x86/Qualcomm is irelevant since X86/Qualcomm chips solve different and a lot more diverse problems that the highly restrictive and niche problems the iPad solves. If you think one brand of "chips solve different and a lot more diverse problems" than another, it sounds like you don't know what "Turing machine" means. All chips can always do what other chips can do — eventually. M4 is faster. That's it. That's the whole selling point.
      - Rinzler89 2y ago
        >M4 is faster. Faster at what exactly? Where can I buy these M4 chips to upgrade my PC with to make it faster as you claim? Oh, it's only shipped as part of a very locked down tablet OS and restricted ecosystem with totally different apps than those running on the X86/generic ARM chips which can run anything you write for them? OK, fine, but then what's the point of it being faster than those other chip if they can't run the same sw? Like I said, you're comparing a Ferrari to a van. It's faster yes, but totally different use cases. And the world runs mostly on people driving vans/trucks, not on people driving Ferraris.
        ben_w 2y ago
        Your complaint is more like saying a people carrier is an overpriced sportscar because of its inability to function as a backhoe, while ignoring evidence not only from all the people who use people people carriers, but also disregarding the usage and real world value evidence in the form of the particular company behind this people carrier manages to be wildly popular despite above average prices for every single model.
    - dagmx 2y ago
      You're arguing multiple axes and this argument feels really nonsensical to me as a result. So first of all, your entire argument hinges on YOUR belief that the iPad is just a consumption device. So you don't believe the M4 is a significant jump over the M2, even when I give you reasons that it is. Then your argument hinges on the comparison to Qualcomm SoCs, but isn't the use of the iPad irrelevant unless you also believe it'll not make its way to other devices? Which feels unfounded. Those are two distinct arguments that IMHO have no bearing on each other unless you also make the two assumptions that I think you're erroneously making.
- ben_w 2y ago
  > like MKBHD, calling it a overpriced Netflix machine. I've not seen that quote anywhere. Google no longer actually finding quotes no longer means the quote isn't present on the internet, so do you have a citation for that?
  - Rinzler89 2y ago
    It wasn't a quote, just implied via other words and expressions. Watch his M4 iPad review.
    - ben_w 2y ago
      I did*, he didn't. You might have "overpriced if used as a", but not "it's overpriced and only a". * Assuming "What" is a typo for "watch"; gosh, isn't auto-corrupt an annoying part of this era…

by dagmx 2y ago

Rinzler89 2y ago

Sure, those are nice improvements, no question about it, but none of those change the iPad fundaments or unlock new possibilities for it, which is that it wasn't previously compute limited but limited by iPad OS. It's also not just my opinion but almost all users who reviewed the M4 iPad Pro, like MKBHD, calling it a overpriced Netflix machine.

dagmx 2y ago
I mean, if your question is “what new capabilities did it unlock?” then doesn’t that apply to the whole CPU market? Did any of the stuff you mentioned you do has fundamentally changed in desktop in the last decade +. People like faster and snappier things. Along with that the new hardware unlocks the use of tandem oleds which is a big change for HDR creation and color accuracy. They go hand in hand. A lot of people create on iPads. I used to work in film and almost all my concept art friends have shifted over to iPad. A lot of my on set friends use it for on set management of content, visualization and rushes. The reviewers you mentioned don’t use the device that way. Would I similarly be right in taking their opinion about how niche it is to run Linux? Like this argument you’re proposing just boils down to “it doesn’t solve my needs and therefore I can’t imagine it solving other people’s needs”
- Rinzler89 2y ago
  >Like this argument you’re proposing just boils down to “it doesn’t solve my needs and therefore I can’t imagine it solving other people’s needs” I never said that. I asked what needs does the M4 solve that the M3/2 couldn't? I asked that because people keep bring up the M4 in discussion, arguing against X86/Qualcomm chips, how they're slower than Apple's latest M4 chips, and for that I counteract with the fact that for a lot of cases the M4's extra performance over x86/Qualcomm is irelevant since X86/Qualcomm chips solve different and a lot more diverse problems that the highly restrictive and niche problems the iPad solves. And it's not me, because those are not my needs, I don't compile the linux kernel or doe CAD/CAE, or microbiology simulations but those to me (and to society and humanity) those are still more important than movie writers having a slightly faster iPad for drafts, since it's not like that was the reasons most movies suck nowadays.
  - ben_w 2y ago
    > I never said that. I asked what needs does the M4 solve that the M3/2 couldn't? I asked that because people keep bring up the M4 in discussion, arguing against X86/Qualcomm chips, how they're slower than Apple's latest M4 chips, and for that I counteract with the fact that for a lot of cases the M4's extra performance over x86/Qualcomm is irelevant since X86/Qualcomm chips solve different and a lot more diverse problems that the highly restrictive and niche problems the iPad solves. If you think one brand of "chips solve different and a lot more diverse problems" than another, it sounds like you don't know what "Turing machine" means. All chips can always do what other chips can do — eventually. M4 is faster. That's it. That's the whole selling point.
    - Rinzler89 2y ago
      >M4 is faster. Faster at what exactly? Where can I buy these M4 chips to upgrade my PC with to make it faster as you claim? Oh, it's only shipped as part of a very locked down tablet OS and restricted ecosystem with totally different apps than those running on the X86/generic ARM chips which can run anything you write for them? OK, fine, but then what's the point of it being faster than those other chip if they can't run the same sw? Like I said, you're comparing a Ferrari to a van. It's faster yes, but totally different use cases. And the world runs mostly on people driving vans/trucks, not on people driving Ferraris.
      - ben_w 2y ago
        Your complaint is more like saying a people carrier is an overpriced sportscar because of its inability to function as a backhoe, while ignoring evidence not only from all the people who use people people carriers, but also disregarding the usage and real world value evidence in the form of the particular company behind this people carrier manages to be wildly popular despite above average prices for every single model.
  - dagmx 2y ago
    You're arguing multiple axes and this argument feels really nonsensical to me as a result. So first of all, your entire argument hinges on YOUR belief that the iPad is just a consumption device. So you don't believe the M4 is a significant jump over the M2, even when I give you reasons that it is. Then your argument hinges on the comparison to Qualcomm SoCs, but isn't the use of the iPad irrelevant unless you also believe it'll not make its way to other devices? Which feels unfounded. Those are two distinct arguments that IMHO have no bearing on each other unless you also make the two assumptions that I think you're erroneously making.
ben_w 2y ago
> like MKBHD, calling it a overpriced Netflix machine. I've not seen that quote anywhere. Google no longer actually finding quotes no longer means the quote isn't present on the internet, so do you have a citation for that?
- Rinzler89 2y ago
  It wasn't a quote, just implied via other words and expressions. Watch his M4 iPad review.
  - ben_w 2y ago
    I did*, he didn't. You might have "overpriced if used as a", but not "it's overpriced and only a". * Assuming "What" is a typo for "watch"; gosh, isn't auto-corrupt an annoying part of this era…